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  #31  
Old 28-11-15, 07:24 AM
oc14 oc14 is offline
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For anyone who is interested I suggest that you google "Andrew Butler Insignia" and then it will become clear who Andrew is.
Regards
pL
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  #32  
Old 28-11-15, 08:50 AM
Hanbut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
Hi Andrew

Was there a specific difference in the way that you made your badges compared to the originals?
Yes the quality of the bullion wire and the threads used also the quality of the badge is nothing like a WW2 badge
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  #33  
Old 28-11-15, 09:03 AM
Hanbut
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Like I have said in other threads this is becoming a personal if not trying now to be a racist mudslinging match. If the seller and the new owner of the badge are completely happy that is fine as with the thousands of happy ebay customers I have had over the last 18 years. Do these purists realise how much original badges would be and how rare they would be to find if I did not 'peddle my sh one t' All these extra collectors would be chasing the same limited amount of real badges. Many collectors and many museums are very happy to have my reproductions. I do also sell a large amount of original pieces !! I do feel this has now run its course and I do apologise for the way I started the thread, Andy apart from trying to be nasty with your comments I accept that nobody can be an expert in everything and we all make mistakes. By the way I am white but I am afraid I do have Ginger hair! so nobody is perfect, Andrew
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  #34  
Old 28-11-15, 09:12 AM
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Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
Andy,
I am rather bewildered by "Andrew's" posts in this thread!
Kind regards Frank
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  #35  
Old 28-11-15, 09:14 AM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Andrew,
Please don't elevate this to racism as that is just your perception!

Now your identity has been revealed it is clear that you are a dealer in both genuine and reproduction items. You should have made this clear from the start as it would have been far less confusing.

Thank you for your observations.

Andy
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  #36  
Old 28-11-15, 09:34 AM
FMT600 FMT600 is offline
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All is now a little clearer,

As the originator of this thread has decided that its run its course please let me make a final observations on the 24L Bullion badges

There has been no physical evidence provided by the originator supporting his very bold statement that both Andy's example and one of the example's shown by the HAMMO2440 are fakes.

That's the last thing I have to say about it.

FMT600
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  #37  
Old 28-11-15, 04:39 PM
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What on earth was the point of a statement like this, or indeed, the point of your original post that started this thread in the first place?
You suggest Andy's badge is a copy, I'm finding it hard to understand why you suggested that originally, then you appear to claim that it was you who actually made the badge and then you clearly state that you did not, moreover, you then go on further to state that Andy's badge is in fact original.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanbut View Post
This is definately a copy, I am sure if you remove the material from the reverse you will see the cotton holding the silver wire will be white and will glow under uv light. I agree that the way is not to publicly flog a seller but it does seem to be the way this forum works when someone is selling copies, even when they sell them clearly marked as a copy. (But maybe these are just a few forum users that like to use this for a more personal attack) I am sorry if you took this personally but do stand by my opinion on this badge
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  #38  
Old 28-11-15, 05:14 PM
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Keith,
Indeed, a really pointless thread!
Kind regards Frank

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  #39  
Old 28-11-15, 08:26 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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I have to say that I am also having some problems in trying to find the point of this thread but all I would say is that if there is a market for quality reproduction embroidered badges and they are being made but not with the intention to deceive anyone, then surely it would be a very simple matter to somehow mark them on the rear in such a way that they could not be mistaken for genuine examples but the front of the badge would not be affected.

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  #40  
Old 28-11-15, 08:58 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Peter,
I agree, and this is not directed at Andrew however the majority of Fakers, whether they intend their repros to be supplied to those who like to get dressed up in old military clothing or displaying, if you are going to produce something that is near indistinguishable from the original then you should mark it in some way! Otherwise IMO they're just in the business of deceit just like all the other con artists faking badges in the hope that some unsuspecting collector will buy it thinking it is real!

If you do fakes with honest intentions then like Peter states "Mark Them", otherwise you are just misleading people!

Andy

Last edited by 2747andy; 28-11-15 at 09:10 PM.
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  #41  
Old 29-11-15, 08:32 AM
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Default 24th Lancer on and on

Frank I do not make badges personally!! I have over 3500 on my ebay page and to make each one in batches of 20 or more would be far too time consuming!! I have been 'having' badges made in India Pakistan and many other countries for over 30 years. In the early days they were just made to my order. In the last 6 years I have tried to always used nylon in the badges so this will 'glow' under a UV light this does not stop people selling one of my 506th Para badges as real for $150 on ebay it was clear it showed nylon on the back. The other problem is some sellers on ebay now mount my badges on a piece of old bd material to make it look like it has always been on there. How many people are going to cut the badge off to see what is on the back. When I see one of my badges being offered as real I usually list one in new condition and title it exactly the same as the seller offering the 'real' piece. This way hoping the bidder will see it is one of mine.

So this option does not work but by putting all my items on my website and ebay collectors should be able to see what is on offer. I sell them as what they are, space fillers, or samples of the real thing. You must realise not everyone wants to spend small fortunes on real badges. Christopher Lee was an excellent customer but would never buy anything over £20 and almost all copies, Now his collection is fetching good money. Nowt as strange as folk!

The Lancer badge was made for Castle Armoury in Dover he supplied the original badge and took all 10 pieces. He is now deceased so it does not matter. But I stopped making for him after it was obvious what he was doing.
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  #42  
Old 29-11-15, 08:56 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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No, it has not helped in any way whatsoever, I'm still confused as to what any of this has to do with Andy's badge or indeed your original post.
Apart from the blatant self advertising, perhaps you can tell us what you hope to achieve with all of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanbut View Post
Frank I do not make badges personally!! I have over 3500 on my ebay page and to make each one in batches of 20 or more would be far too time consuming!! I have been 'having' badges made in India Pakistan and many other countries for over 30 years. In the early days they were just made to my order. In the last 6 years I have tried to always used nylon in the badges so this will 'glow' under a UV light this does not stop people selling one of my 506th Para badges as real for $150 on ebay it was clear it showed nylon on the back. The other problem is some sellers on ebay now mount my badges on a piece of old bd material to make it look like it has always been on there. How many people are going to cut the badge off to see what is on the back. When I see one of my badges being offered as real I usually list one in new condition and title it exactly the same as the seller offering the 'real' piece. This way hoping the bidder will see it is one of mine.

So this option does not work but by putting all my items on my website and ebay collectors should be able to see what is on offer. I sell them as what they are, space fillers, or samples of the real thing. You must realise not everyone wants to spend small fortunes on real badges. Christopher Lee was an excellent customer but would never buy anything over £20 and almost all copies, Now his collection is fetching good money. Nowt as strange as folk!

The Lancer badge was made for Castle Armoury in Dover he supplied the original badge and took all 10 pieces. He is now deceased so it does not matter. But I stopped making for him after it was obvious what he was doing.
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  #43  
Old 29-11-15, 11:00 AM
Hanbut
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Default 24th Lancers

NO I REALLY DO GIVE UP NOW. The buyer and seller are happy. I will refrain from giving my opinion on items in the future, it seems it will cause less argument
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  #44  
Old 29-11-15, 11:04 AM
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Will the person who buys from this buyer be happy and remain so ?

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  #45  
Old 29-11-15, 11:10 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Sadly, it is the people who manufacture all this dross, that have ruined the hobby for so many!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
Peter,
I agree, and this is not directed at Andrew however the majority of Fakers, whether they intend their repros to be supplied to those who like to get dressed up in old military clothing or displaying, if you are going to produce something that is near indistinguishable from the original then you should mark it in some way! Otherwise IMO they're just in the business of deceit just like all the other con artists faking badges in the hope that some unsuspecting collector will buy it thinking it is real!

If you do fakes with honest intentions then like Peter states "Mark Them", otherwise you are just misleading people!

Andy
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