Leicesters Anodised Aluminium/Staybright Badges

['Ticker' Riley]

Following on from something I mentioned on a recent posting about the Royal Warwicks anodised cap badge, I’m putting up three examples of Leicestershire Regiment ones. All are different makers’ variants and all have marked vertical shanks/sliders, though two have “J.R.Gaunt B’ham” on them. As far as I know the one in the middle is Gaunt’s actual variant, as this appears as an officers’ silver & gilt badge, sometimes with their mark, and was also used for the badges in the Birmingham Mints’ medal/badge series ‘Great British Regiments’. Anyhow, the composite image below shows the fronts and backs of the three badges:

Beret Badges.jpg

Firstly I wonder if anyone has come across any other variants of the anodised aluminium Leicesters badge, particularly any alternative makers’ marks please, especially any badges of the variant on the right with another manufacturer’s name perhaps?

Secondly, on a more general point, with regards to these ‘three-quarters size badges’, or so-called ‘beret’ badges, my understanding is that such a badge in bi-metal was approved in 1950 (see my 2017 posting here) and sealed on 12 June 1951 (I believe that a card for this has kindly been put up by Marc (54Bty) here). The late Stephen Risby (badjez) thought that the anodised version was sealed on 11 July 1968 (this being the date given in Kipling & King, Vol. II, p. 54, for the “smaller size for wear on the beret”, though they give this for the bi-metal badge, to which they have added “also anodised”), and I do have a note, from personal correspondence with Chris Marsh from 2013, where he talks about these anodised Leicesters badges saying “Manufacture would be 1966 and onwards”.

The difficulty I have with specific reference to the anodised Leicesters badges is who exactly wore them and for how long? If they did not come into being until the late 1960s, which would appear to be the case, then the regulars of the Regiment did not wear them, as both those at the depot and the 1st Battalion, then in Germany, were re-badged with the Forester’s badge in August 1961. This would leave just the territorials and cadets, though the former, “The Royal Leicestershire Regiment (Territorial)”, were actually reduced to a “Cadre” consisting of just “three officers and five other ranks” in April 1969.

Although I have a great interest in the cap badges of the Leicestershire Regiment, I am not an expert on its regimental history, particularly with what happened to it in its latter years and its absorption into the Royal Anglian Regiment. Consequently if anyone could help in establishing who was, in fact, wearing these anodised Leicesters badges, and for how long into the 1960s, and possibly the 1970s, then I’d be most grateful. As I don’t have a copy of Chris Marsh’s book, I’d appreciate hearing what he had to say about matters – if someone could possibly oblige please?

Best regards

Martin

[grey_green_acorn]

Martin,
Have you trawled through the online editions of the regimental journal ‘The Green Tiger’
https://royalleicestershireregiment....ger-1950-1959?

For example a group photo from 1955, seem to be wearing the smaller pattern cap badge in the beret. Bimetal or anodised?

Tim

[Sonofacqms]

Martin,
I have a Royal Leicester Regt beret badge with "FIRMIN LONDON" on the slider in anodised aluminium.

I hope this helps in your studies.

Rob

[grey_green_acorn]

Martin,
I have consulted Anodised Aluminium by Chris Marsh and perhaps the most interesting reference is that the Army Dress Committee meeting 178 on 12 April 1967 decided to approve the cap badge of the Royal Leicestershire Regiment for all sub units of (Territorial) Battalions of the Royal Leicestershire Regiment. This was CB 3106 NSN 8455-99-973-9444 Pattern No 19955.
Chris Marsh also refers to a Sealed Pattern Card dated 26 January 1972 and that known manufacturers are GAUNT and FIRMIN.

This seems slightly at odds given the disparity between the approval to wear date (1967) and the SP date (1972) for the anodised version. It would seem likely that the TA Battalion were receiving retrospective approval to wear the bimetal badge as they were assimilated into 5 ROYAL ANGLIAN (V) in 1967?

Tim

[JerryBB]

Chris Marsh lists a Gaunt London badge as mid 1960s in the caption for the photograph of the badge for Royal Leicestershire Regiment

[grey_green_acorn]

Jerry,
Yes seems some inconsistencies in the dates. I think ‘mid sixties’ is perhaps an error unless we can find an earlier SP card than 1972?

Then there is ACF use to consider.

Tim

[grey_green_acorn]

J.R.GAUNT B’HAM makers mark and FIRMIN LONDON

Tim

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Jerry,
Yes seems some inconsistencies in the dates. I think ‘mid sixties’ is perhaps an error unless we can find an earlier SP card than 1972?

Then there is ACF use to consider.

Tim

it certainly is closer to their "end" in 64, but what did the RLR TA wear?

I am sure I have read of sealed patterns being signed off retrospectively some years after unofficial use of insignia and of course paperwork can go missing easily enough so maybe the pattern cards or army orders will never turn up

PS I have the Firmin London stamped version

['Ticker' Riley]

Many thanks for the replies Gentlemen, all of which I am glad to have. As to your Firmin marked Leicesters’ badge Rob, I take it that it’s the same makers’ variant as the one I’ve shown on the left in my picture, or like the example Tim has now posted up? If it’s not, then I’d very much like to see it please.

Turning to your informative postings Tim, yes I have been looking at the Green Tiger for information, though I hadn’t seen the photo you’ve kindly shared. I would say that you are right and that they are wearing the ‘three-quarters size badge’, which would be expected as apparently new supplies of this size had been received in 1951, and I would say, looking at the picture, that it was the bi-metal version. Interestingly I have the below picture of a full-size “Leicestershire” Regiment cap badge (note NOT a “Royal Leicestershire”, though the same man was wearing cloth shoulder titles saying “Royal Leicestershire”!) being worn on a beret by a member of the 1st Battalion on their way to Korea in 1951, which I’ve put above an actual example of such:

Korea Beret.jpg

Anyhow, returning to the anodised version, I’ve been going through some more old correspondence I had with Stephen Risby, and found some comments sent to him by Chris Marsh, which echo what you found in his book; for which I am grateful by the way. In his e-mail to Stephen he said that the “Standard Pattern card for AA cap badge, with seeded scrolls, [was] sealed 26.01.72.”, and that the manufacturer of the sample was J. R. Gaunt & Son, this being “Pattern No 19955”. I believe that this card would be the one listed on the Imperial War Museum’s site here (sadly without a picture), as the details appear to match.

Chris also mentioned to Stephen about the card that appears to be the one Marc (54Bty) has put on the Forum, which looks to be for the bi-metal version, Pattern No. 14653, dated 12 June 1951 (though I have to say the badge on Marc’s card looks very shiny indeed for a bi-metal one!). As Chris pointed out, this card is annotated “Superseded by 8455-99-973-9444 Patt. 19955” in red (possibly in a later hand?), which does seem to refer to the one from 1972. There are other details on the 1951 card, such as “To be fitted with vertical shank”, I take it because they originally had loops, but also “To guide for anodised aluminium”.

The bit about Chris noting that “Army Dress Committee meeting 178 on 12 April 1967 decided to approve the cap badge of the Royal Leicestershire Regiment for all sub units of (Territorial) Battalions of the Royal Leicestershire Regiment” is also most interesting, but as you say, appears to be at odds with the anodised badge being sealed in 1972. I think your assessment of this probably being for the bi-metal would make more sense, despite Chris saying this was Pattern No. 19955, i.e. that for the A/A one!

Perhaps you are right Jerry about “sealed patterns being signed off retrospectively some years after unofficial use of insignia”, or may be going “missing easily enough”, and that, therefore, we are only getting a partial picture of what actually happened. Having said that, on the available information, it does seem that these Leicesters anodised aluminium badges are unlikely to have been worn by regulars of the Regiment, and that it was just the territorials and cadets who did, at least until their badges, presumably, changed as their affiliations altered. Though, of course, none of this offers an answer as to where Kipling & King got their 1968 sealing date??

Best regards

Martin

[John Mulcahy]

[QUOTE=

..., then the regulars of the Regiment did not wear them,... This would leave just the territorials and cadets,

Martin[/QUOTE]

This appears to be the case for the AA cap badges of The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, The Royal Ulster Rifles and The Royal Irish Fusiliers also.

The regular battalions wearing the brigade cap badge (prior to that the bimetal and WM regimental pattern badges) and the AA regimental pattern badges being used by the territorial battalions which were not "badged" North Irish Brigade.

John

[Alan O]

I would point out that there were a few cadets such as the DLI and Cameronians who wore a/a badges long after both the Regular and TA battalions ceased to exist. I can't remember the Cameronians date but I think that it was late 1990s or even later.

['Ticker' Riley]

Many thanks for the responses John and Alan, and apologies for the delay in replying. It certainly seems, if the anodised aluminium three-quarters size badge wasn’t sealed until 1972, and by that time the regulars has been re-badged with cap badges of the Forester Brigade, the tiger was indeed only worn by territorials and cadets (I wonder if there is any significance in the fact that, after being reduced to a ‘cadre’ in 1969, the territorials were, apparently, reconstituted in 1971 as B (Royal Leicestershire) Company, 7th (Volunteer) Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment?).

Anyhow, when I started collecting cap badges back in 2009 I was merely looking to obtain a couple of Great War examples, to regiments in which family members served (little did I know then how much of a ‘mine field’ badge collection can be!), but this soon changed into an interest in style and variety of the post-1893 badges, particularly in those for the Leicesters. At the beginning of my studies I didn’t intend to cover their so-called ‘beret’ badges, especially the A/A ones, but after a while, for the sake of completeness, and because there was more variety than I had initially expected, I did include them.

Accordingly it has been a bit of a shock to realise that they are unlikely to have actually been worn by the Regiment, as such, which I had simply assumed would have been the case. It therefore appears this all needs further investigation, particularly as to how long these tiger badges were worn by the territorials and cadets before being replaced, presumably, by those of the Royal Anglian Regiment. Interestingly, more than ten years ago now, the dealer Martin Warren told me it was the full size bi-metal “Royal Leicestershire” badge that had been worn by cadets.

I know that there is no evidence that such a full size badge was worn by the regulars of the Regiment, apart from as an O.S.D. badge which looks to have been approved in 1950. Despite John Gaylor’s assertion in his Military Badge Collecting, p. 33, that “In November 1946 the Regiment was granted the Royal title and the badge was re-struck with a ‘Royal Leicestershire’ scroll in standard size and later in small pattern for beret”, which I take it is behind comments elsewhere about the full size bi-metal cap badge being worn “for a very short time after 1946 before the small sized beret badge came into use” (in the light of my recently learning about ‘Gaylor fakes’ here on the Forum, I’m concerned what he put in his book might have been an attempt to justify the existence of something he had, in fact, commissioned himself!?).

In any event, I have now come across an entry in the on-line ‘Inventory’ for the National Army Museum to “Cap badge, Royal Leicester Regiment, nd; sealed pattern, sealed 11 Jul 1968”, though what is not clear from this, to me at least, is if this is just for a cap badge to which the sealing information has been added as part of its description, or if it is for the badge on the actual sealed pattern card from 1968. Consequently I have made enquires, and am awaiting a reply. I am wondering now though it Kilpling & King, when they came to putting the sealing dates into their published work, given, like Gaylor, they note the full size “Royal Leicestershire” bi-metal cap badge, got them the wrong way ’round? If I do hear back from the N.A.M. about this, I’ll obviously share their reply!

Best regards

Martin

[Alan O]

I was under the impression that the TA Bn finally ceased to exist in 1971 (having been reduced to a cadre in 1968 and then reconstituted) and after the title passed to a company of the TA Royal Anglian Regiment wearing the RAnglian cap badge that the Regulars had been wearing since 1964.

I would agree that the full sized Royal Leicestershire ORs cap badges were a 1970's creation to fill a gap that never actually existed.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley

I know that there is no evidence that such a full size badge was worn by the regulars of the Regiment, apart from as an O.S.D. badge which looks to have been approved in 1950. Despite John Gaylor’s assertion in his Military Badge Collecting, p. 33, that “In November 1946 the Regiment was granted the Royal title and the badge was re-struck with a ‘Royal Leicestershire’ scroll in standard size and later in small pattern for beret”, which I take it is behind comments elsewhere about the full size bi-metal cap badge being worn “for a very short time after 1946 before the small sized beret badge came into use” (in the light of my recently learning about ‘Gaylor fakes’ here on the Forum, I’m concerned what he put in his book might have been an attempt to justify the existence of something he had, in fact, commissioned himself!?).

Very possible. The fantasy 19th Hussars double scroll Nelly often claimed as a ‘pagri’ badge features from the first edition of his book. I’ve been told he used to sell them.