Irish harps

[KLR]

Most Irish unit badges carry a representation of a harp in the design. There appear to be two types.
One of them has an 'angel' forming the left side of the harp - as in 8th Hussars, Royal Irish Rifles etc
The other type has a curved decorated left edge to the harp, as in Royal Irish Rgt and Connaught Rangers.

I have been told that the first type, often described as an "angel harp" is officially known as the Harp of Erin.
I have also heard that the second type is known as the "Harp of Brian Boru"
BUT I've heard them described the other way around too !!!

I'd be grateful for notice of any official [? heraldic] designation as I want make a "correct" catalogue description.
thanks, Julian,

[John Mulcahy]

Julian

I have not seen any "official" heraldic classifications of Harps but to get the discussion started... Looking at it from background of the Republic of Ireland, the Irish Presidential Standard (see below, also shown is the great seal of the Irish Free State) is a blue flag with the heraldic harp. (This is the official term ... I am not sure what the term Heraldic is meant to connotate). The model for the artistic representation of the heraldic harp is the 14th century harp now preserved in the Museum of Trinity College Dublin, popularly known as the Brian Boru harp.

This is the type of Harp seen on the badge of the Royal Irish Regiment (18th Foot) .

I have also seen what I think are popular terms used , "Tara Harp" (referred to in the context of the London Irish Rifles regimental Records) and the so -called "Maid of Eireann Harp" (symbolised by the type of harp used by the Royal Irish Rifles).

The Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland might be able to help you.

http://www.nli.ie/en/heraldry-introduction.aspx

John

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I may be wrong, but I had assumed that the more ornate female or "angel" harp was associated (at least in Irish republican circles) with the Union, insofar as it is the version depicted on the Royal Standard. Republican imagery normally incorporates the plain harp as shown in John's post.

[ard-ri]

I have often heard her refered to and have always known her as the Maid of Erne, as in Loch Erne. I am doing more checking into this. The Harp without the Maid is a Southern Harp.

Michael

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I thought it was "Maid of Erin"?

[ard-ri]

I may be mistaken. I do remember many years ago while at the Belfast Library, reading through an old book that told the legend of the Harp. As I recall, the Maid Harp came about in a fashion similar to Excalibur, it was given to someone, I can't remember who, by someone similar to the lady of the Lake in the Arthurian Legend, only it was at Loch Erne. I cannot find any referance to that Legend online. So maybe she is called the Maid of Erin.

Michael

[Pylon1357]

I have always been under the impression, the harp with a female figure in front was called the Maid of Erin. This is the harp style on the Irish Regiment of Canada insignia.

I have been following this discussion with great interest. Thanks lads, you are all making this topic a real learning experience for me.

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I think there are two issues surrounding the harp badge, a historical one and a mythological one. In historical terms the harp-and-crown was first used on Irish coins during the Middle Ages, although during the Cromwellian regime the crown was removed (the arms of the Commonwealth comprised the Irish harp and the red cross of England - the Scots did not get a look-in).

The harp badge is perhaps the earliest, most famous and most enduring symbol of Ireland and, as such, it has attracted various legends - I had not heard of the Lough Erne story, although rivers and lakes seem to feature prominently in Celtic mythology.

Hello,
I always knew of the harp with the lady as the 'Maid of Eireann' or 'St Patricks Harp' and the other as 'Brian Boru's'. It would be very interesting to estabish the reasoning behind the use of each harp in irish military insignia. Most of the irish militias used the Maid of Eireann within their insignia. The Connaught Rangers and the Royal Irish Regiment used Brian Boru harp as opposed to the 'northern' regiments who all used the Maid of Eireann. I believe the Connaughts did use the Maid of Eireann on their White Helmet badge in the late 19th century. The Royal Irish Constabulary used the tara harp throughout their history. I have also seen examples of Home rule propaganda using both styles of harp.
Royal Coats of arms have also been depicted with both styles - it would be interesting to learn about the origins of the Maid...

Jonny

[revdougal]

But how many strings has an "Irish" Harp? There is great variety.