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  #16  
Old 11-05-10, 10:59 PM
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lol.... Sorry to hear you are not friends... I liked your brother. Please wish him well next time you speak.... if you do that is....
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  #17  
Old 12-05-10, 08:31 AM
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No problem Howard......... not all that glitters is Gold
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  #18  
Old 12-05-10, 12:40 PM
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KDG badge turned up this morning...... definatley white metal (as Howard said). I have put it alongside a QDG Badge that I have had for some time (used to be on my whippets collar..... hence the slider abuse!)

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  #19  
Old 12-05-10, 04:29 PM
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These are my 4. By these criteria I appear to have:

1. 1906-15 but later QDG type eagle.
2. 1937 All brass KDG.
3. 1960 w/m QDG.
4. 1990s chromed Firmin QDG.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-10, 05:02 PM
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One easy way to identify.... is the "Dickie Bow" Sword Hilt (also the large shoulders on the wings) on the KDG.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 12-05-10 at 05:08 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-05-10, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
These are my 4. By these criteria I appear to have:

1. 1906-15 but later QDG type eagle.
2. 1937 All brass KDG.
3. 1960 w/m QDG.
4. 1990s chromed Firmin QDG.
Yes Al 1. 3. & 4. are all correct. However the Jury is out on badge 2. I am still canvassing KDG/QDG Vets about it. I have a feeling it might be ringer but am still not 100% sure.
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  #22  
Old 12-05-10, 07:56 PM
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This one came from a collection of WW2 badges. It was amongst good company so I am fairly happy with it. The fact that it is not from a modern QDG die makes me happier with it.

Alan
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  #23  
Old 12-05-10, 08:07 PM
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Re: Brass KDG Eagle (No scroll)

Wilkinson does have a Brass example on page 10 fig 7 as 1st KDG; Brass; Slider; (no scroll) ....... its postion in the line up implies pre 1915? He does show the 1937 White metal with loops as the last one for the KDG (the white metal example he shows is the QDG pattern?).

Gaylor, in contrast, says that the "Brass" eagle with no scroll started life in 1937.... he then goes on to say that the White Metal came into existance during the Second World War and remained so even after amalgamation. On plate 3 in his book he shows what I assume to be the Brass eagle in the KDG pattern.

In the book "Dress Regulations for the Army 1900" by the War Office.... the Brass Eagle (Pattern 1) is shown without scroll?! "Worn in the Puggaree, The Austrian Eagle, in Gilt or Gilding Metal". {Appendix I; Badges-Cavalry; Sub Heading : On full dress Head-dress; 1st (Kings) Dragoon Guards}

In summary we have three different dates ...from three different books?

Is this the Gilt or Gilding metal (no scroll) Puggaree badge c1900?
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 12-05-10 at 08:52 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-10, 10:55 PM
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Yes its very confusing isn't it...but one thing is for certain, KDG wore no pagri badges. They had a red cockade and a blue fold in the actual pagri.
Why that pic in the Dress regs shows the eagle without scroll is an absolute mystery, it was first shown to me by the late great Walter Lambert who also had no answer.
Alan's no 2 and the badge you suggest might be a pagri badge is nothing of the sort. It could be a 1940's/50's locally produced badge but as i have said... so far absolutely no KDG or ex KDG/QDG can verify it as having been worn. I wish someone had a picture of it but so far none has appeared. I'm still not convinced of its veracity but am happy to be convinced otherwise.
What makes you so confident of its provenance Al?
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  #25  
Old 13-05-10, 06:30 AM
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As I said it was being sold as part of a WW2 collection. Every other badge there was absolutely right and I have no reason to doubt it. It is certainly not a pagri. If it was a restrike then it was a lot of effort to create a new die for a badge that is not sought after. It may never have been worn by the regt but that does not mean that it was not produced and issued to recruits at depot. QDG a/a cap badges exist and were issued to new recruits in depot before they got to the regt were they not?

There was one on Bosleys postal auction a while back.
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  #26  
Old 13-05-10, 08:13 AM
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What is the difference between "Puggaree" and "Pagri"?

A "Puggaree" to me is the sweatband (layered cloth) on the Pith Helmet..... I am assuming that the long slider in a "Puggaree" badge is used to keep the badge secure in the Puggaree?
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  #27  
Old 13-05-10, 08:24 AM
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Indeed it is one and the same. Long slider going through the back of the cloth band.
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  #28  
Old 13-05-10, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
As I said it was being sold as part of a WW2 collection. Every other badge there was absolutely right and I have no reason to doubt it. It is certainly not a pagri. If it was a restrike then it was a lot of effort to create a new die for a badge that is not sought after. It may never have been worn by the regt but that does not mean that it was not produced and issued to recruits at depot. QDG a/a cap badges exist and were issued to new recruits in depot before they got to the regt were they not?

There was one on Bosleys postal auction a while back.
I fully understand the thrust of what you say. Produced it was, and why indeed go to such lengths to produce them with a differeing eagle shape? I have had a number of these "3rd versions" over the years and still keep one brass one and one WM one in my collection. You are absolutely correct in saying that AAS and Chromed badges have been produced both commerically and officially for the QDG (and one example for KDG) over the years and have never been worn at RD. My 'informed' guess would be that it is exactly that. A commercially produced badge for possible sale in the PRI. Its interesting to note that almost without exception the examples i have seen of this badge are in very good nick (not polished in any way - so that dates them as pre amalgamation & usually with pristine sliders).
The bottom line is this, i have no evidence photographic or anecdotal of this badge ever having been worn at RD. I am currently asking the Q again on my various information networks. I do not think we shall actually ever know. If i had to make a call, i would say it is probably an immediate wartime production possibly made in Germany (because of the quality) during the early 50's and worn by a small amount of KDGs (as replacements for lost UK produced items) if any at all.
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  #29  
Old 13-05-10, 11:21 AM
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If the w/m badge was not approved for issue in 1937 what badge did the recruits get issued at depot?

Alan
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  #30  
Old 13-05-10, 08:58 PM
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I believe it was this one!
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