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  #61  
Old 04-02-19, 11:27 AM
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I got a reply from Emerson141151 this morning. I'll quote it exactly

" Hello Andy, i am perplexed as to why you are so interested in this badge, as you have do not wish to purchase it.
Given that you claim to only collect bed plates ?
I understand that you have slated me on a social media site over this badge.
I have never encountered this before.
This has caused me some distress.
Perhaps you will understand that, i will keep by business to myself. Over this rather regrettable event.
Thank you Philip. "

WOW, i only collect bed plates ????? i don't even own one !!!!! Distress, the poor soul.
Andy

PS, i will try and screen shot the message.
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Last edited by grenadierguardsman; 04-02-19 at 11:35 AM.
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  #62  
Old 04-02-19, 01:54 PM
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It is his badge to do as he pleases with, why would it matter if he has removed it?

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Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
Is this dealer a member on this Forum ? Ive message him a few times, but haven't had a reply ? With regards to him removing the said badge from sale on eBay.
Andy
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  #63  
Old 04-02-19, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
It is his badge to do as he pleases with, why would it matter if he has removed it?
Frank
He had the badge up for sale as xyz. When asked for evidence for why the badge was xyz, he said it came with a load of officer badges and the chap told him it was xyz.
I wasn't happy with that explanation, and I'm hoping others would agree with me there ?
Of course its his badge, and yes if he wants to sulk he can. Or he could have just sold it as " may be Guards related ". Either way Frank he needs to grow up, i only asked a question, and then i had to prompt for an answer.
Have i offended him, ah petal. If he wants offending, go back 20 odd years and get him to join the Guards. He'll soon get offended.
Andy
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  #64  
Old 03-06-19, 03:34 PM
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Can I resurrect this thread and ask about the attached badge.

Its in superb fire gilt with a Silver crowned Royal GR Cypher to the centre. To the rear two gilt loops and a strengthening bar between the ball and the flames.

According to K&K it should be a cap badge of a "Commissioned Quartermaster" hence my posting it on this thread.

So could I ask the following:-

1. Do you agree that it is a badge of a Comm. QM? Standard WO badges are not gilt, but bimetal.

2. I am unsure whether the Royal Cypher is GVR or GVIR, it appears to be a bit of both?

All views invited.

regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GG1.jpg (67.6 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg gg2.jpg (69.0 KB, 18 views)
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  #65  
Old 03-06-19, 04:05 PM
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Hi Simon,

My knowledge on these is approximately zero, but what I did notice, and this may be old news or irrelevant news, is it appears to me the cypher is "GR" from the left to the middle, then if you hold a mirror up to the badge GR again, but a mirror image , if that makes sense?

This may be common as I say, I don't collect nor do I know anything about these, but I'd never seen this before.

Cheers, Tim
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  #66  
Old 03-06-19, 04:12 PM
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Tim,

Its called "Interlaced and Reversed", but GVR are more curly on the ends than GVIR but the question I raised is which monarch is it for?

regards
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  #67  
Old 03-06-19, 04:32 PM
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Hi Simon, OK, I thought it would not be news to you, but thought it better to raise it, just in case. Sorry, that's as far as I can help!

Cheers, Tim
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  #68  
Old 03-06-19, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Can I resurrect this thread and ask about the attached badge.

Its in superb fire gilt with a Silver crowned Royal GR Cypher to the centre. To the rear two gilt loops and a strengthening bar between the ball and the flames.

According to K&K it should be a cap badge of a "Commissioned Quartermaster" hence my posting it on this thread.

So could I ask the following:-

1. Do you agree that it is a badge of a Comm. QM? Standard WO badges are not gilt, but bimetal.

2. I am unsure whether the Royal Cypher is GVR or GVIR, it appears to be a bit of both?

All views invited.

regards
Simon its Senior Warrant Officers grenade, that cypher is King George VI. No i don't believe Quarter-Master's wore this imho.
Andy
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  #69  
Old 03-06-19, 06:31 PM
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Andy,

I accept that its GVIR, I just wasnt sure.

However, you say its a "Senior Warrant Officers" badge & that confuses matters for me.

I have not seen any reference to Grenadier Guards Warrant Officers cap badges being split by class, ie Senior & Junior. All references I know of just state "Warrant Officers" (with no distinction as to class) ie WO1, WO2 (and whilst this badge existed also WO3), and again all references I know of only state that they wore a Bimetal badge of the same style, But NOT in Gilt.

The Warrant Officers badge in bimetal is quite easy to find but the same one in gilt like mine is very hard to find.

The reference to S/gilt badges being for Commissioned QM's comes from K&K of course.

Can you give some further explaination as to why you think this is not a Comm.QM badge as per K&K and also your reference to it being a 'Senior' WO badge, as I am confused.

regards
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  #70  
Old 03-06-19, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Andy,

I accept that its GVIR, I just wasnt sure.

However, you say its a "Senior Warrant Officers" badge & that confuses matters for me.

I have not seen any reference to Grenadier Guards Warrant Officers cap badges being split by class, ie Senior & Junior. All references I know of just state "Warrant Officers" (with no distinction as to class) ie WO1, WO2 (and whilst this badge existed also WO3), and again all references I know of only state that they wore a Bimetal badge of the same style, But NOT in Gilt.

The Warrant Officers badge in bimetal is quite easy to find but the same one in gilt like mine is very hard to find.

The reference to S/gilt badges being for Commissioned QM's comes from K&K of course.

Can you give some further explaination as to why you think this is not a Comm.QM badge as per K&K and also your reference to it being a 'Senior' WO badge, as I am confused.

regards
Simon
I have seen quite a few King George VI grenades gilded. My reason for the Quarter-Master not wearing a metal grenade is just an opinion. However i have seen no evidence, and why would he be different to other Officers ? KLR put me on to the Public Records Office and i now have the sealed pattern no.s.( somewhere ) wo1,2 and 3 are not mentioned the word staff is though. And the type of materials is also mentioned. Dress regs 1904 mentions the Bronze grenade.
Andy
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  #71  
Old 03-06-19, 07:13 PM
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For instance Simon WO359/5 18/8/87 badges forage cap P1168 badges forage cap staff, P1169 Sgt's, P1170 R+F.
Hope this helps
Andy
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  #72  
Old 03-06-19, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
Simon
I have seen quite a few King George VI grenades gilded. My reason for the Quarter-Master not wearing a metal grenade is just an opinion. However i have seen no evidence, and why would he be different to other Officers ? KLR put me on to the Public Records Office and i now have the sealed pattern no.s.( somewhere ) wo1,2 and 3 are not mentioned the word staff is though. And the type of materials is also mentioned. Dress regs 1904 mentions the Bronze grenade.
Andy
Andy,

As per Tobys post #54, the reasons are explained.

"A really important note to make here is that Quartermasters did not originally have a regular commission as they do now (albeit LE category), they held only Honorary Rank and were made to dress differently to all other officers to make it clear that they were not perceived as gentlemen. It seems entirely likely to me that at that time of Honorary rank (the title was always along the lines: "Quartermaster AND Honorary Lieutenant"), a special badge was worn that differentiated the QM's cap from the other officers. I believe it is not for no reason that it is similar to the RSMs badge, from whom most Quartermasters sprang."

This thread also highlights others work that concludes that the badge is indeed a Comm. QM badge.

If as you think its a WO's badge, who do you think then wore the bimetal version?

regards
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  #73  
Old 03-06-19, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Andy,

As per Tobys post #54, the reasons are explained.

"A really important note to make here is that Quartermasters did not originally have a regular commission as they do now (albeit LE category), they held only Honorary Rank and were made to dress differently to all other officers to make it clear that they were not perceived as gentlemen. It seems entirely likely to me that at that time of Honorary rank (the title was always along the lines: "Quartermaster AND Honorary Lieutenant"), a special badge was worn that differentiated the QM's cap from the other officers. I believe it is not for no reason that it is similar to the RSMs badge, from whom most Quartermasters sprang."

This thread also highlights others work that concludes that the badge is indeed a Comm. QM badge.

If as you think its a WO's badge, who do you think then wore the bimetal version?

regards
? The Wo's badges is bi metal ? As for the rest, we have no proof other than sealed pattern info. Have we ?
Andy
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  #74  
Old 03-06-19, 07:32 PM
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Again Badges forage cap Scots Guards
PC ( pattern change ? )
D ( date ? ) 18.08.1887
7691
The entire of forage cap badge Scots Gds for staff is to be silver gilt and the badges when worn out to be returned to stores.
Different Regiment but same principle imo.
Andy
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  #75  
Old 03-06-19, 08:20 PM
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Another mystery is the Grenade with Queen Victoria's royal cypher on, the one without a crown ? Can't find any info on that one ?????
Andy
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