AA para badge by Gaunt

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Crikey Frank. He found it attached to the badge...

I not a he, I a she

Alli or Allison or Lil or whatever just not he

[Frank Kelley]

I can well imagine it would certainly attract a good number of bids, very nice indeed!

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

Ebay, I have never fought so hard for an item in my life my brother has my dad's beret and this was the closest I could get to buying one of a similar period. Although I'm pretty sure my dads badge was lugged as I use to wear his beret as a kid and the fixings used were painful, but then he was with the TA through until the 70's so I doubt it was his original badge.

[Tigerlily]

It did and the most expensive buy so far, but in my defence I had ebay vouchers!

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

I not a he, I a she

Alli or Allison or Lil or whatever just not he

Ooops!

Sorry Allison!

Regards,

Chris

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Guys,

I had finished with this thread but here are some references that I based my work on. You will note that the information is most official and dates from 4th January 1967. The files were handled by myself at the Reading Room of the National Archives in Kew in 2012.

The numbers shown refer to my published work in Chapter 16 of my book including reference to the Queen's Regt A/A cap badge with brass slider.

14. Letter from L. M. Arnold of Q (C&GS)1C to J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd., dated 4th January 1967, titled Anodised Cap Badges Corrosion, labelled E92 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

15. Letter from DISC to L. M. Arnold of Q (C&GS)1C, dated 29th December 1967, titled Badges Organisation Cap – The Queen’s Regiment, labelled E90 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

16. Letter dated 10th January 1968 from J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd. to L. M. Arnold of the Ministry of Defence titled Anodised Badges - Corrosion, labelled E96 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

17. Directorate from Director of Inspectorate of Stores and Clothing, dated 31st May 1968, labelled E144 and held in file WO 32/20559.

18. Letter from the Director of Army Contracts, Ministry of Defence to Q (C&GS dated 22nd April 1968, titled Badges Cap A. A1 – The Queen’s Regiment, labelled E132 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

References 16 and 17, both dated 1968, are important as they both contain the following statement:

‘...The Vertical Shanks on aluminium Cap Badges are to be aluminium...’ (16) (17)

In effect then, I find it difficult to believe that brass slider A/A cap badges would have been made by manufacturers or accepted by the British Army post late 1968.

Therefore, unless further official evidence comes to the fore, I re-iterate my stand that the Gaunt B'HAM mark was in use in January 1967, as per reference 14 above, with the badges being manufactured in 1966.

Regards,

Chris

I think that nails the use of the Gaunt Bham mark to at least 1966 if not earlier. The fact that you have Brigade badges with the Gaunt Bham mark that have a known end date of 1966-8 and the known end-date of brass sliders as 1968 means that such badges must pre-date that. In fact I have owned East Midlands Brigade badge with a Bham mark and that was supposed to have ceased in 1964.

The dating is muddied by the prolific issue of Gaunt Bham a/a badges in the 1970s and the reproduction of metal badges by the company using that mark in the 1970s.

[bess55]

Hi Chaps,
well the HCB badge kicks my theory into the long grass for sure and happy to do so .

However it poses more questions. Further more I have a Foresters badge too that has a Gaunt Bham mark and that ended in 63! So, it appears Gaunt were clearly using both London and BHam marks at the same time certainly through the 60's so this thread has established that, which is very helpful - if not confusing, because why do it? although information on the sealed pattern cards doesn't tend to support that.

And yes the Gaunt BHam mark is generally associated with badges from the 70's onwards. Additionally, apart from the well known 'rare breed' AA badges that we know are copies, I don't subscribe to the 'made for the collectors market' either. You couldn't give them away when I was a boy.

What is interesting is that as Alan quite rightly states the Queens Regt badge must have been issued some time before the badging parade at the end of Dec 66 in order for a difficulty with the slider fixing to be experienced. It was clearly an issue that rumbled on for a couple of years until the practice ended as Chris' research uncovered. Which Bn would be interesting to know.

However it is odd that the corrosion issue wasn't reported by the RE or REME whose badges both sport this brass slider in both Gaunt marks making the earliest London marked ones issued very early, late 50's even perhaps. They must have been worn in a tropical/desert posting before the Queens were issued them, surely?

So using the Brigade badges as the Gaunt BHam mark bench mark it is difficult to establish how early they go. Most of the Bde badges have the known earlier marks and we can expect that they probably came first but without firm documentation or other proof, we cant establish that.

Unfortunately the key to all of these debates over dates - are dear to all our collecting hearts - probably lays with the current Gaunt owner. Ah, and there we hit a difficulty so I understand.

Kind regards all

Bess

[54Bty]

The possible reason for badges outside your time frame with B'Ham marked sliders could be that vast stocks of sliders were stored already stamped and used on the badges. In a similar way that old stocks in stores accumulate because the new boxes are placed at the front instead of taking them all off and putting the new ones at the back.

Marc

[Frank Kelley]

Sounds a bit like my local supermarket!

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Sounds a bit like my local supermarket!

Is that the one where people dress up in superhero costumes when you go in for wine Frank? you need a different supermarket

[Frank Kelley]

Indeed it is, you have a good memory, but, it does stay open for quite long hours and is very convenient.

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

Is that the one where people dress up in superhero costumes when you go in for wine Frank? you need a different supermarket

[Frank Kelley]

I think this is about the only anodised one I've got, hence my original post in Luc's thread, I did, initially, think I might have has a couple of others, but, quite frankly, it is much like everything else here, far too well hidden away!
I'll have to have another look in due course.

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

Ebay, I have never fought so hard for an item in my life my brother has my dad's beret and this was the closest I could get to buying one of a similar period. Although I'm pretty sure my dads badge was lugged as I use to wear his beret as a kid and the fixings used were painful, but then he was with the TA through until the 70's so I doubt it was his original badge.

[Tigerlily]

I have an amazing memory for things that are not devastatingly important.

How can you not know where you badges are Frank?

[Frank Kelley]

No, it's not badges in general, it is a particular badge amongst the others that you have!

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

I have an amazing memory for things that are not devastatingly important.

How can you not know where you badges are Frank?

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

No, it's not badges in general, it is a particular badge amongst the others that you have!

Aah I see well no doubt you have a huge amount compared to me but mine are filed in boxes by theme: blackened, tigers, family, RRF and NF etc etc I still manage to find badges I've forgotten I've bought

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Allison,
So does this beret pre date yours fathers service slightly, something made in 1961 could certainly have sat on the shelf for sometime, but, a very nice thing, more so, with that particular badge.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

Ebay, I have never fought so hard for an item in my life my brother has my dad's beret and this was the closest I could get to buying one of a similar period. Although I'm pretty sure my dads badge was lugged as I use to wear his beret as a kid and the fixings used were painful, but then he was with the TA through until the 70's so I doubt it was his original badge.