Royal Marines Police Officer's Cap Badge??

[Paddy]

Hi All

Just received this badge today. It was described as silver or plated. Don't believe it is silver and am more inclined to believe it is nickel plated given the dull patina on the reverse. The front of the badge has cleaned up very nicely. There are 2 bendable tabs to the rear and it is marked JR Gaunt London. Question is, is it a Royal Marines Police Officer's cap badge (I have seen a similar badge at Bosleys I think). The ends of the laurel wreath end in single leaves (not very clear on the left hand side) which is usually indicative of an officer's badge as opposed to ending in double leaves as in OR's badges. Any suggestions welcome.

Paddy

[engr9266]

Here is a picture from paddy which shows the Royal Marine police badge and this has double leaves on the end of the wreath

[Alan O]

There may be nothing 'police' about the top badge. If you add the separate lion and crown it is a standard officers' badge. A bit of plating and 'voila' a 'police' badge.

[grey_green_acorn]

This also raises the question "Where there (ever) any Officers in the Royal Marines Police?"
Is is not more likely that an officer would be seconded from General Duties and retain standard insignia?
Was there a Royal Marines Provost Marshal or equivalent?
Help from the RM experts required please.

[engr9266]

I have the following information about the RM Police:-

After WW1 there was a general call for economy and the Met police was under great pressure in the London area from the effects of the 1926(?) General Strike. As a result the Met withdrew from (all) Naval dockyards and the Admiralty decided to institute a force to be know as the RM Police. which was created on 13th OCT 1922. All members were sworn in as Special Constables but were, as the name implies, originally serving and/or retired members of the RM.

Members were recruited according to their previous rank, ex NCO's as Constables and ex OFFICERS as Inspectors and above. However, the RM Police had little time to establish themselves before WW2 was upon them.

The restrictive practice of recruiting only RM pensioners showed its weakness with the drying up of the source of supply, as men who would have be expected to retire were being retained for the duration of the war. To counter this the rules were amended to permit any ex-serviceman from any branch of the armed forces to enlist in a new section of the force known as the RM Police Special Reserve.

This still failed to achieve its aim and a third force, the Admiralty Civil Police, was formed and anyone, regardless of former military service, could join. In fact, many men did join that force were allowed to do so as an alternative to joining the Armed Forces.

Consequently, at the end of WW2 in 1945 the Admiralty found itself with three Police forces, each with different conditions of service and discipline but all under the same Chief Constable. This situation was obviously undesirable and in OCT 1949 all three forces were disbanded and the Admiralty Constabulary was formed.

I hope this helps.......

[Paddy]

Dear All

Many thanks for your comments.

Alan - that is exactly what I thought when I first bought saw it. I don't believe there was any intention to decieve on the part of the seller as he just described it as silver or plated. I bought it out of curiosity value more than anything else and at £6 I'm more than happy to keep it.

The comments from Grey Green and Jerry have also raised the question about officers in the Royal Marines Police. Jerry's info states that ex officers became Inspectors or above so the question is what badges did these inspectors or above wear. Did they wear the same badge as ORs, if so what other distinguishing insignia did they wear? or did they wear a white metal/silver version of an officer's collar badge/bottom part of cap badge.

Paddy

[stonehouse boy]

Hi Paddy,
The one I've had in my collection for many years is a two part badge the globe is held to the laurel by a screw fitting its by Ludlow, London.
I got the badge from a well known badge dealer who does all the fairs in the south of England it is also silver plated.
I missed out on his buttons which were already sold but I was told they were very ornate and I've yet to see one.
John

[Alan O]

I have found a slidered version of this badge in white metal. I have only ever seen lugged ones before and always wondered about them being collars. This slidered one looks absolutley 'right'. The annoying thing is that is in a medal dealers' cabinet and the whole shelf is labelled as for display only! I do wonder if he knows what he ahs got there.

[stonehouse boy]

Hi Alan,
The one I have is a bottom of a cap-badge the lugs are 13mm the dealer I got it from was very confident it was a Royal Marines Police Officers cap-badge and he seems to know his badges and has a good following at fairs.
John

[Paddy]

John

I've got a couple of pictures of the type of Ludlow badge you are talking about and am always hopeful one will crop up. As for the question of collars or sliders, if you look on ebay there is an active auction of a picture of a Royal Marines Police Constable. In the picture he is not wearing Globe & Laurel collars, he is wearing his police number, and from what I can see, RMP shoulder titles and the cap badge has the typical double leaf ending.

Item number 140394769159

Paddy

[ProCoy]

This one was sold to me as officers, though I never believed it to be. To me it is simply an Other Ranks which has been heavily polished.

I had always assumed that,(partly because K&K don't mention an officers badge), like the Military Police, at that time officers were just on secondment from other units so it is very interesting to learn that there were indeed officers at Inspector grade. I assume that a true officers badge would be very rare.

[stonehouse boy]

Hi Paddy,
There is a picture in a book I have Naval Heritage in the West by Andy Endacott part 2.
It shows Admiral Sir Robert L Burnett with Commander Clayton, Commandant of the Royal Marines Police inspecting the Plymouth Royal Marines Police Detachment in 1948. The other ranks have numbers on their collars and RMP shoulder titles but the officer at the end has of the line has globe and laurel collars and RMP shoulder titles.

John