Army Service Corps

[Bantam]

With such a wealth of knowledge out there I wonder if anyone could answer there was never a small wreath version of The ASC Kings Crown O/R pattern in gilded metal struck ?
Despite seeing the OSD pattern with its coating stripped and polished trying to be passed off as one I have never seen an original .I long ago came to the conclusion that none existed but never knew why.Any suggestions ?
Regards
Bantam

[Peter Brydon]

Bantam, there is an article by Charles Thomas in the MHS Bulletin of August 1963 titled " The Origin and Variations of the ASC Badge "
Unfortunatly the illustrations are rather poorly reproduced so I cannot scan them to post,but there are illustrations of 28 ASC/RASC cap badges often with the corresponding collars.If you can post a picture of the altered officers badge I will try to see if an other ranks version is illustated
P.B.

[Bantam]

Thanks very much for the information.I will attempt to attach photo.
Regards
Bantam

[Malcolm Davey]

Bantam
Here is the badge that i have
Cheers
Malc

[Bantam]

Hi all,
Yes thats the badge of the other ranks post Queen Victoria 1902 but why did they produce a small wreath version for Officers in S/G,OSD and Officers Volunteer in W/M and not a version for O/R in brass ?
I remember attending a number of Arms Fairs and my heart missing a beat when I spotted what I though was version of the badge, but on further inspection discovering it was the Australian O/R pattern with the Motto,Par Oneri (We share the Burden) on it.
Regards
Bantam

[Bantam]

Hi All,
Still not received the definitive answer as to why they never made a K/C version of this badge.Please help !!
Bantam

[Alan O]

Just because an officers KC badge existed did not mean that the ORs had the same design. There are lots of examples where Offrs badge differed from ORs. Was there a QVC ORs badge with the short wreath in the first place?

Alan

[Bantam]

For members information I have uploaded some pictures from my collection of Army Service Corps to show variations it patterns issued.
1)Queen Victoria Crown Officers Forage Cap unfortunately enamel missing from centre.
2) A rare pair of Officers collars i.e.without crown.Attachment 283

Attachment 284

Attachment 285

Attachment 286
Bantam

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Just because an officers KC badge existed did not mean that the ORs had the same design. There are lots of examples where Offrs badge differed from ORs. Was there a QVC ORs badge with the short wreath in the first place?

Alan

Hi Alan,
As you can see from the thread and the photo I submitted the only badge that is missing is a O/R thin wreath with a K/C.
Regards
Bantam

[Alan O]

I can only assume that the QVC short scroll went out of use prior to 1901 and the full scroll one came into use prior to that so there was no requirement to produce what was by then an obselete design. I will see if I can find a sealed pattern date for the QVC ORs one and that might confirm it.

Alan

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

I can only assume that the QVC short scroll went out of use prior to 1901 and the full scroll one came into use prior to that so there was no requirement to produce what was by then an obsolete design. I will see if I can find a sealed pattern date for the QVC ORs one and that might confirm it.

Alan

Thank you Alan.I have attached to this reply a photo of The ASC Volunteers Officers and Other Ranks Pattern and again you have the anomaly of the different pattern.
Regards
Bantam

[fougasse1940]

To the best of my knowledge, these are all the different versions:

1. 1894. Free standing Victorian crown, ovoid garter tongue along the circle, narrow wreath 33 leaves in threes, narrow monogram with the "A" coming to a point with expanded terminal.
gilding metal for OR's.
white metal for Volunteer companies.
officers f.s. and tropical helmet pagri in silver, the monogram in silver on black enamel ground.

2. 1902. King's Crown, different shaped points to the star. Ovoid garter tongue along the circle, narrow wreath 33 leaves in threes, narrow monogram with the "A" coming to a point with expanded terminal.
All badges have the garter and pierced monogram mounted with two pins to the star.
gilding metal for OR's.
officers bronze (officers bronze have a "flat" rear-surface, OR's are die-stamped).
officers f.s. and tropical helmet pagri in silver, the monogram in silver on black enamel ground.

3. Ca. 1911. Same as above but for the Crown which drops to the garter and is attached to the garter and monogram, which are again attached by two pins to the star.
presumably an OR's version in gilding metal?
officers bronze.

4. 1915-1916. Single piece striking, different garter tongue and buckle, 17 leave wreath, square topped "A" monogram.
OR's gilding metal, from two different dies. The standard badge is 1 5/8, a slightly larger (1 ¾ in. high) pierced and solid "economy" version.
white metal version.
officers bronze two-piece badge.

5. 1918. 25th November 1918 Royal Army Service Corps prefix Royal granted by Army Order 362 for services during the Great War.
Monogram replaced by GvR Cypher. Below the Garter a scroll inscribed Royal Army Service Corps with 5 leaves laurel wreath.
OR's gilding metal.
officers bronze.
officers two piece gilt with garter pierced for blue enamel and red enamel behind the cypher.

6. 1936. EviiiR Cypher.
as above.

7. Ca.1936-1937. "wrong" GviR cypher.
At least two different dies for OR's gilding metal.

8. post 1937? "correct" GviR Cypher.
At least two different dies for OR's gilding metal. Non voided center version. Overseas different sandcast versions.
Other ranks’ chrome metal (coloured) f.s. cap.
cellulose acetate economy issue, two different manufacturers with slightly different dies:
Alfred Stanley & Sons, marked "A STANLEY & SONS WALSALL" total production 912.752
Fraser & Glass marked "F&G" total production 65.000
officers bronze.
officers two piece gilt with garter pierced for blue enamel and red enamel behind the cypher.
unofficial officers embroidered/bullion version on maroon background worn by Airborne units.
OR's Collar badge sometimes worn by officers (of Airborne units).

9. 1947. GviR badge with crown detached from garter, slightly larger points to the star, 7 smaller leaves laurel wreath.
OR's gilding metal.
officers chrome star and crown, gilt cypher, garter, scroll and wreath, garter filled with blue enamel, red enamel backing to cypher.

10. 1953-65. EiiR cypher.
same versions as above. Also in staybrite (from 1956?)
Embroidered/bullion version?

[jeanpit-frenchy]

hello gentlemen...

3 items that tommys give to my grand father during WW1 at ZEGERS CAPPEL (rest camp)
2 cap badges 1 collar...i hope they can help you




best regards..

[Rockape]

Very nice, a normal issue, economy strike and collar if I'm not mistaken

Garry

[Alan O]

The GV RASC, GVI low cypher, GVI standard, GVI raised crown and EIIR.

Alan