41st Regiment Time Line

[41st]

I'm looking for some help on the timeline for these buttons to the 41st (later Welsh) Reg't please.

Photos 1 & 2 are of what I assume to be a Georgian period button from the crown. The maker is Hebbert & Co, London.

Photos 3 & 4 are for a superb quality gilded button with the older, and wrong, style motto spelling (Gwell Augau Neu Chivilydd) usually associated with the mid Victorian period. Marked to the rear for Jennens & Co, London.

However the c. 1831-39 pattern should look as shown in photos 4 & 5. marked to the rear Firmin & Sons, 153 Strand, London.

The 1855 pattern is of course much different.

Any information would be much appreciated.

Diolch,
Kevin

[41st]

I've managed to find out a little more regarding Hebbert & Co., from a sword forum.

It would appear that this style of marking was used c.1827-32 which would fit in for the style of crown used and the lack of any PoW plume device which came shortly thereafter.

However, nothing solid so any light that anyone else can throw on these buttons will be appreciated.

[GriffMJ]

Kevin

You might find this of interest

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/button-makers.html

Hwyl

[41st]

Gruff,

Diolch ond na.

Hebbert are not even listed in that directory. I have seen this directory before when looking at Firmin dates and find it rather confusing.

Thanks anyway.

Hwyl,
Kevin

[Neibelungen]

That's because it's Herbert & Co.

[Neibelungen]

1 and 2 is an O/R's button from about 1831 to about 1855. Several similar examples have been excavated from the Crimea.

It's the officer's buttons that have the aditional features.

I should amend this... O/R's are pewter at that date which implies that an officer's version of the O/Rs (brass) was made, possibly for something like the second battallion is often common. It could have been an expediency too.. if there was a difficult in the supply of the established pattern.

Mounted buttons (with the design seperate to the button) are a strange thing, being very much a tailors special offering than a regimental standard and something you tend to find being often commissioned and employed not only on blazers and other 'civilian' coats often by retired officers etc, but by those who hated staybright offerings.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Neibelungen

That's because it's Herbert & Co.

That's right Thats what the button says.... and they are listed... mostly for Police buttons it appears.