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#1
08-11-09, 01:51 PM
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Irish Guards???
Hi All
I posted this quite a while ago but got no replies, so I thought I'd try again. This is a solid silver badge which has been brooched, and is makers marked by J(ennens) & Co. There is no evidence that there has ever been any enamelling in the centre, but having been made by Jennens I assume it's an officer's badge rather than a sweetheart brooch. The centre seems to be separately applied. The other possibility I'd considered was that it may have been a 4RIDG badge without a scroll. It doesn't have the connecting lines between the shamrocks as per the 4RIDG badges, so this could be a possibility. It is about the same size as a standard cap star. Any theories appreciated, thanks in advance. Cheers, Alex Last edited by Alex Rice; 08-11-09 at 01:53 PM. Reason: More info. 
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#2
08-11-09, 06:35 PM
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Alex,
Although I do not now what it is here are a few thoughs, The shamrock pattern in more in keeping with that used by The 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon guards than the Irish Guards. Although it looks qute a bit different from the usual pattern have you considered the possability that it is an arm badge. Check the dimensions if it is approx. 49mm high by 49mm wide I would suggest that you have an NCO's arm badge to the 4th R.I.D.G. Is it hall-marked, if so can you make out the details of the year, that would go some way to solving the mystery. If a cap star I would expect the dimensions to be 45mm by 45mm. The only Irish Guards connection that I can think of are the so called "Kenny Stars" A small number of silver stars were allegedly made for the regiment in 1900. One is apparently still handed down to this day and worn by the RSM. I shall IM you the contact details for the regimental historian for you to follow up with if you wish. John
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#4
08-11-09, 07:40 PM
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IG?
Hi Alan
The Irish Guards badges also have the date MDCCLXXXIII on them. I think this is a reference to a date in Irelands history rather than the date of the formation of the regiment. Did J & Co make sweetheart brooches? I thought they specialised in officers badges, also, I have my doubts that the brooch pin is original. It looks to me like it's a retro-fit, hence the query. John Thanks for the tips, unfortunately no hallmark, just the makers mark. I'll try what you've suggested. Cheers, Alex
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#6
08-11-09, 11:40 PM
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It's similar, but not identical to the 4th RIDG badges illustrated in Linaker & Dine. The two shown in the book have the outer rays as overlapping in three layers, one is Hallmarked 1898 and the other whitemetal. Size as stated both 49.3 x 49.2mm.
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#7
09-11-09, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Alex, Sounds like you have all you need. If it helps, let me know the tip to tip dimensions. I have a few of this type - one of them is HMS, another is unmarked silver (can't remember what the other one is). There are minor differences in design, but essentially they are identical to yours. I will compare them and let you know - as I don't have mine with me you will have to wait until I get back to Lux in about 9 days. I think that it has already been pointed out but its definitely not an arm badge, the style is different. The flattish style of the middle rays helps identify this even though you haven't provided the dimensions. david
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#8
09-11-09, 07:52 AM
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Arm Badges v Cap Badges
Alex, This picture is not very good as its been cropped from a display of
other 4RIDG items that I happen to have on a stick. But, it will give you an idea. The top row has x2 arm badges and the bottom, x2 caps. As previously mentioned, the style is different. Hope this helps. david When I get back, I will post one of each side by side.
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#10
09-11-09, 09:01 AM
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1783 is the date the Order of St Patrick was founded, both 4RIDG and IG badges are the design of the Orders insignia
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#11
09-11-09, 09:28 AM
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4th RIDG Cap/Collar
Hi All,
IMO this is a collar to the 4RIDG ,see below pic of Cap/collar J&Co. Its the same style of star .Dimensions from tip of star to tip of star E-W N-S = 43mm. 3748 Hussar
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#12
09-11-09, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
John
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#13
15-11-09, 02:08 PM
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4RIDG
Hi All
I have just measured the badge I posted a few days ago, and it is 44mm tip to tip both N-S & E-W, the dimensions across the diagonal star points are 38.5mm. I think it's established that this is 4RIDG and not IG, so can anyone confirm if this is a cap star or sleeve badge? Thanks. Cheers, Alex
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#14
15-11-09, 02:38 PM
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Alex
I think that 3748 Hussar's suggestion that it is an officer's collar badge is the most likely explanation. John
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#15
20-11-09, 04:04 PM
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This is one of 2 that I have that are both 44.8mm tip to tip versions - x1 lugged x1 brooched (both marked J&Co) - this means that they are (absolutely
and definitely) collar badges...? especially as the back is also marked in the same way with J&Co in the centre at the back - as in the 1st post. Can anyone post either the 'Cap Badge sized version' or at least provide the actual measurements of one that they own? Because it sounds as if I needn't bother taking mine over to the cavalry museum for their opinion, which is great - saves on petrol.
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