Machine Gun Corp - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

blackdraggon11 · #1 08-01-08, 02:42 AM

Can you help me with picking genuine machine gun corp badges
Ted

Toby Purcell · #2 08-01-08, 03:48 PM

The good news is it was a very large Corps (at it's height it was significantly bigger that the whole of today's British Army put together - Some 170,500 officers and men served in the MGC) and there are therefore a lot of genuine badges. The bad news is that the original dies have been much used for reproductions. I also recall reading somewhere that as the Corps expanded and different manufacturers were brought in to make the large numbers of badges required, the later productions used successive patterns/marks of MMG so that there are minor but recognisable variations in the appearance of the 'working parts' of the guns in relief. I would add however that although a nice story I do not know if this is true. Can any other collectors comment on this?

dragonz18 · #3 02-03-08, 01:24 AM

Hi Guys,
I've been doing a little thinking.

A lot of questions occur to me about this fairly common & long used, badge.
1. How many actual known varieties(Mks) of the basic badge are there ?
(I have 3 types of the o/r's ,but have not consiously been looking for any more.)
2. Are they all Vickers guns, or are some of another brand, like Maxims?
3. Is there a known progression(sequence) for these ?
4. Do we know a period of issue for any of the earlier(?) patterns?
5. Were the differences just various maker's versions & did some carry on throughout the war with their own particular version? Why change a perfectly good Die there?
6. Are all variations found as OSD bronze?
7. Are all variations found as Silver also?
8. Are all variations found as collars?
9. WM versions .....for yeomanry attached units, true or false?
There were many more questions, but about here I started to get a headache, so anything else that collectors can think of ,just add it on !

Hoping for a few answers(or general thoughts anyway), to some of the questions ,at least !
Cheers !
Steve

jeanpit-frenchy · #4 02-03-08, 07:52 AM

i can only send pictures of the items in my collection

1 standart MGC

cap badge genuine 100%, collar 50%

jeanpit-frenchy · #5 02-03-08, 07:55 AM

with the MMG , machine guns are very different....and King Crown bigger

on my badge slider hade been broken and the badge had been "broched"---genuine ??? 50%

dragonz18 · #6 02-03-08, 08:14 AM

Frenchy,
they all look to be OK there !

Cheers !
Steve

PS: BTW many thanks for that RND article that you sent. Not translated ,yet !

Mike · #7 02-03-08, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

with the MMG , machine guns are very different....and King Crown bigger

on my badge slider hade been broken and the badge had been "broched"---genuine ??? 50%

I've never been quite happy with the MMG stuck on the front, but maybe they did make them like that at one time.

here is one I am happy with (apart from the missing slider

)

note the "MMG" has a couple of tags to allow it to be fixed on the back.

Mike · #8 02-03-08, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

with the MMG , machine guns are very different....and King Crown bigger

on my badge slider hade been broken and the badge had been "broched"---genuine ??? 50%

Just noticed yours is not fully voided between the "M" and "G" - I have one like that which I thought was a copy - will add some photos in a mo.

how did you come by yours jeanpit?

on this front fixing type the "MMG" looks pushed over to the right (an affect of the M's being wider than the G, I think) making the whole thing look asymmetrical, I am sure this would not be accepted.

Mike · #9 02-03-08, 06:05 PM

anyway here's two different guns to look at to take your mind off it. .......never really thought about the differing designs being different types of actual machine guns just thought they were a different "take" on the same gun.

Mike · #10 02-03-08, 06:53 PM

Hi Malc, well the difference is big enough to be seen on contemporary portrait photos of MMG men - I am sure some exist somewhere - (museums? and is there not a MGC association? )

that would reveal if a particular type or both were worn.

orasot · #11 02-03-08, 10:00 PM

Hi Chaps,
Firstly, no problem Malc with you showing the pic, saves me doing it !! The badge (MMG) is part of a collection which was owned by a man who worked as head salesman for Firmin in London, he worked through both wars & died in 1949. His collection was split between the family, one member of which is a friend of mine. As head salesman, he would keep all the samples he took out & about for approval. The MMG is one of these, & like all the others, unissued & mint, the brazing on these badges has to be seen to be believed, first class workmanship. Malc has seen these & can verify. I have posted some of the others on another of our forums before. Maybe Keith will see them one day & can give his input on them too. I don't normally go for mint badges, but these, with the story behind them is what makes our hobby so fascinating.
All the best, Wilf.

dragonz18 · #12 03-03-08, 03:19 AM

Admin & Frenchy,
do'nt go throwing those badges away, just yet. Will check when I get home tonight,but am almost 100% certain that they are OK.
Cheers !
Steve

dragonz18 · #13 03-03-08, 08:44 AM

Still away from Home,PC,Information & Collection.

But some points of possible interest here.
I personaly think the front-fix ,solid letter,etc badges are Fine.
Frenchy's badge ,in particular shows several features that I think helps this, a great deal, here.
It has what appears to be genuine wear ,on the letters especially ,as it should be?
Genuine looking back 'gunge' (age) etc ,for a change, on these also? Good colouring as well. ?
But these obviously easily faked features aside,it's the replacement(broken) pin that sells it ,for me. It looks to be a correct period piece, identical to others I've seen ,from that time & looks in keeping with the badge ?
The broken off slider & replacement by this method ,is a definite point in it's favour,I think ??
Not something I feel a 'faker' would spend time & trouble doing ? You would also be seeing more of them like this?
Overall ,it looks to be the 'Real Deal' ??

The 'bending groove' & correct WW1 style slider on Admin's badge ,are good ,but not infallable points ,there? The letters are a little off-skew, but hurried manufacture or re-affixing at a latter time could explain this?

Just my thoughts. But feel free to disagree !

Cheers !
Steve

PS: Admin... I do not know the named gentleman, but then I do not mix a lot with the large, local horse-racing fraternity.

Mike · #14 03-03-08, 01:27 PM

Hi Steve, all your points are valid of course and I live in perpetual fear of condemning a genuine badge, particularly on a hunch (apart from the K&K photo which appears to show my clipped slider variety.) this is why I have stated I am not confident the front fixed badge is a copy, it could be just a slighty lower quality more of a mass production type from the later period when the corps was expanding.

All three badge versions could be perfectly valid.

Orasot's badge is interesting, have you seen another of this type in the wild? ie. can we be sure the sample went into production in that form?

orasot · #15 03-03-08, 01:56 PM

Hi Admin,
There is no way of saying if this type went into production, as they are his sample badges, who knows !! We can see it doesn't have the bigger crown, which we all go for on this badge ! I would have to say that the MMG would probably be easier to break off with this type, could be why they made them with the tabs ?? No doubt about the provenance of this badge though, or the others that came with it. Still not going to give it a bend though !!!
All the best, Wilf.