‘A’ Battery 5th Field Regement S.A.A.

[Tony B]

Pictured: Bombadier Clive Percival Beckley. 1941.
If anyone can help I’d be most grateful.
My question is: Would the collar badge scroll have read ‘SOUTH AFRICA’ or ‘UBIQUE’? I’ve seen both but I”m ultimately looking for the correct version for this regement.

Many thanks, Tony

[Tony B]

Attached for interest.

[fairlie63]

I think the bi-lingual South Africa Suid Afrika was on that particular collar badge Tony.

Out of curiosity what does the (PR) sub-title after SAA mean? Pretoria Regiment?

Cheers, Keith

[Tony B]

Thanks Keith. Would that be bilingual on one badge? Almost looks like there wouldn't be enough space.
I've also been baffled by the P.R. I think it's more likely to be Potchefstroom Regement rather than Pretoria.

Tony

[Arthur R]

'PR' stood for 'Piet Retief', which was usually written out in full as part of the title.

[fairlie63]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Thanks Keith. Would that be bilingual on one badge? Almost looks like there wouldn't be enough space.
I've also been baffled by the P.R. I think it's more likely to be Potchefstroom Regement rather than Pretoria.

Tony

Tony, yes, both titles in the one scroll. When I get back on my own PC I'll put a photo of one up, I have them in brass and bz I think.

Arthur, thanks for the explanation, what is the significance of Piet Retief?

Keith

[Arthur R]

Originally Posted by fairlie63

Arthur, thanks for the explanation, what is the significance of Piet Retief?

Piet Retief was an early 19th-century Afrikaner leader. I rather think that the regiment was raised in a district where he had lived, and that this was a way of honouring him. The artillery regiment later dropped his name, and an infantry unit named 'Regiment Piet Retief' was formed in the 1950s. 5 Field Regiment later converted to infantry too (in 1960) and became 'Regiment Algoa Bay'.

[fairlie63]

Originally Posted by fairlie63

Tony, yes, both titles in the one scroll. When I get back on my own PC I'll put a photo of one up, I have them in brass and bz I think.

Arthur, thanks for the explanation, what is the significance of Piet Retief?

Keith

Photos of ORs and officers collar badges attached. These must have been replaced soon after by the type without a scroll and the South Africa/Suid Afrika title around the ball. I don't know whether the latter were just for officers or if ORs wore them as well.

[milhistry]

Interesting photos! Most of the gunner photos I've seen from WWII have been of chaps wearing battledress or bushjackets so collar badges have not featured much. I had always understood the scroll type collar badge to have been replaced in WWII by the plain ball type without scroll but this shows them still being worn in 1942. Then again, the khaki drill frock with stand and fall collar is also still being worn despite having been superceded by the KD bushjacket in 1940. It seems the latest issue kit was usually for those who served overseas while the ones in training made do with whatever was left in the stores.

[Tony B]

Thanks for pics Keith. The badge on the uniform certainly resembles your first image with the formation of the flames and the polished ball. The next question is where do I find one of these to go with my photo and collection?
Tony.

[manchesters]

Tony,

As it happens I bought a pair a couple of weeks ago in error. The vendor told me they were a different pair to the ones that arrived and so I have doubled up!.

Please PM me for details.

regards

[fairlie63]

James MacKenzie at South African Militaria has a pair for sale at USD40.

[fairlie63]

Sorry Simon, yours came up when I posted.

[milhistry]

Have a look on Bid or Buy (SA equivalent of eBay or TradeMe). There's one listed at the moment for about $7.
You just need to make sure the seller is willing to sell to an overseas buyer and doesn't charge you a couple of limbs in postage. There are some good sellers though that will sell via credit card or paypal. It's always worth checking first though.

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by fairlie63

James MacKenzie at South African Militaria has a pair for sale at USD40.

Thanks Keith. Saw them... pretty rough condition for the price.
Tony