VTC Album - Part 1

[TWGB]

Fellow collectors,

I have today posted an Album of VTC badges featured in Kipling and King, and would welcome your comments. I am aware of a couple of rogues in the set, and a few more suspects, but all information or opinions gratefully received!

If anyone has any gap fillers in their scrap/swap boxes - I know that VTC is not quite mainstream enough for some of you - then cast-offs equally well received, if not more so!

Part 2, VTC badges NOT featured in K&K, will follow shortly.

Thanks in anticipation,

Tim

[Peter Brydon]

TWGB,

An excellent addition to the Forum.

Many thanks

P.B.

[Sonofacqms]

Absolutely fantastic . . !

Great albums and superb reference which takes over where K&K left off.

[yorkie]

TWGB
many thanks for both vtc albums ,they are excellent and a real reference for all the members on this forum .
i actually bid on some of these items, but they got a bit too expensive for me. regards andy.

[Tinto]

Hi Tim,

A very impressive lot of VTC badges. Thanks for displaying them "in the flesh".

What are your wants? Just might be able to help.

Cheers,
Tinto

[matti467]

Great albums and it is good to be able to put a badge to the name.
Matti

[TWGB]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the feedback; very encouraging, and much appreciated!

About 25% of the badges I've had for 25+ years, which is when I sold my fairly respectable WW1 collection as I needed the funds. I kept the VTC badges as (a) they were interesing and (b) they weren't worth much!

I started again about 8 years ago, rebuilding a WW1 collection (mostly OR)but also concentrating on the VTC area. I've bought from almost every badge source available, but my auction success rate - probably only about 25% - suggests that there are plenty of other interested parties out there...

Best regards,
Tim

[Keith Blakeman]

I was very interested in those with the Fattorini Bolton brand on the shank. These have often been considered to be dubious but I also note that they were originally part of Hugh King collection.

Fattorini were certainly a big player in the manufacturer of VTC's but seemed to use a whole range of methods - die stamped, die cast, loops, flat loops, and shanks. There's one badge I noticed which is die cast and branded and also has a branded shank too!

[TWGB]

Keith,

It is certainly an interesting area; not only did Fattorini manufacture many types of badge, they do not always mark sliders, and as you've noted on the Oxfordshire they sometimes marked a slider on a named cast badge! I am 99% sure that all my Fattorini marked sliders are original; in the case, for example, of the Whitly badge Geoff Newman recently sold an identical lugged version with the flat lugs, another Fattorini trademark!

There is an example of a Fattorini named slider on the "Makers Marks" section of the site, with a query againsy it. I have an similar example, which I can almost categorically say is a copy, for which I attach a picture or two. The rest of my Fattorini named sliders fit into the same pattern, albeit with different depths of strike. The Bolton starts under the M of Thomas, and finishes under the second T of Fattorini. The one exception (isn't there always!) is the Oxfordshire badge, and I'll challenge anyone to tell me it's not original!

I've attached a few close ups of the marks, and the captions should identify the badge they came from. I'm more than happy for these images, or any from the album, to be used in the Makers Mark section as the powers that be see fit...

Best regards,
Tim

[TWGB]

...so only Derbyshire in the above post is "reAal". Here are the rest of them:

[Keith Blakeman]

Great info Tim. Something else to put in the memory bank although I now wonder how many Fattorini badges I've passed by!

I really would like to get some of these sooner or later, Chelsea (obviously) but as a collector of London Regt badges I feel there's a real closeness or affinity with the area you live in such as I do in South London. The Dulwich Defence League one has always intrigued me. Is there anything glaringly obvious about your one compared to the thousands of copies to look out for, without a repro to hand I can't see much difference with what I've seen before?

Lovely collection though and a real joy to see.

Keith

[TWGB]

Thanks, Keith.

Time to 'fess up! I mentioned a couple of badges that were suspect, one of which is Dulwich. I've had this particular Dulwich a long time, it has wonderful colour and patina, good long lugs, but...

...there are tiny "feet" on the lugs - they are slightly splayed where they join the badge - which is normally a sign of a copy! So there is a question mark over the badge, although it is by far the best I've seen!

I actually have two very similar badges, the one in the album has had the sharp corners at the top of the shield and both points rounded off slightly compared with the K&K example, but this appears to have happened long ago, perhaps even when it was finished? The other is identical to the K&K example, again nicely patinated, probably a slightly sharper stiking, good long lugs, but the same tiny feet.

Comparing my two slightly suspect badges with most of the copies I've seen, the biggest difference - other than colour/patina - is the sharpness of the strike, particularly seen in the "Volunteer" banner at the top...

If you're wondering, my other "suspects" are:
1610 Derbyshire: 2 fine examples, slightly different, but differing from K&K in the height of the crossbar in the H
1611 Exeter: Another "old" badge, but so many fakes around I'm not 100% sure...
1624 Hampshire: too light, and should be on a slider, not loops
1636 Blackpool: Another "old" badge, but so many fakes around I'm not 100% sure...
1643 City of London: Ditto, although this really is a fine badge!
1694 National Motor (Brass): Again, an "old" badge, but so many fakes around...

To add some balance, 1652 London Volunteer Rifles is as much "copied" as any, but the Gaunt tablet on mine gives me a very warm feeling!

Good luck, although why say this when I'm bringing more competition into an already tight market, I'm not sure!

Best regards,
Tim

[Keith Blakeman]

Thanks Tim,

No fears, I'm not a rival yet. I would like a good Dulwich but VTC's are well down my list of priorities at present.

Thanks again

Keith

[41st]

Tim,
Great albums and thanks for putting them up.
Here's a couple you appear to be missing.
1. Glamorgan.
2. Denbighshire.
I've also put up my Carnarvonshire which has the Fattorini mark on the slider.
Regards,
Kevin

[yorkie]

hi gents,
slightly worried now as i sent back a really nice looking leeds rifles
capbadge purely because when it arrived and i examined it it had fattorini bolton on the slider, the seller was quite bemused with my reason for returning it and said he had never heard that fattorini bolton on the slider was suspect . regards andy.