Pagri Badges

[Keith Blakeman]

Does anyone have their own definitve list or photos in their collections of pagri badges which differed from the forage/field service caps in pattern? Discount any helmet plate centres with sliders please .

The ones I can think of at present are as follows:

East Surrey's. The small star shaped badge without a scroll. Often seen on ebay in brass and I've never seen a proper one although the 2nd VB had a w/m version.

Cameronians. Smaller than the 'normal' badge?

KOYLI. The large bugle about three times the size of the 'normal' badge

Hampshire's. Wreath, tiger and rose all in brass surmounted by a QVC. 1st & 2nd Btns slightly different.

Any others?

[dragonz18]

14th COL (London Scottish) small in bronzed finish. Never seen one 'in the flesh' though.

Have a brass Gloucestershire with completely encircling & very thick wreath,that has a long slider.About the size of the BI back badge.I've always considered to be a Pagri (Pugaree) badge.(Pictured below) I know of a w/m with lugs version of this one also, in a friend's collection.

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Another that I've always considered to be a pagri badge ,but can find no reasonable explanation for it being so. Different in being all brass, with longish slider & no scroll.Had it for many years now & have only seen one other. ??
Both this & the one above shown previously on another site ,with no real conclusions.Hoping a resurection will find an answer here.

Cheers !
Steve

[KLR]

Keith,
with the introduction of the "cap badge" in the mid 1890s many of them are described - in their sealing patterns - as for use on the FSC and the FSH ! I reckon the only way of telling might lie in different lengths of the loops.
I know of one badge sealed in 1926 that was for cap and FSH but in that case the regt had long been wearing a cloth "flash".
Julian

[Peter Brydon]

I believe the badge below is a Kings Liverpool Officers pagri badge.

Steve do you know which regiment your badge relates to ? It seems to be connected to Perthshire- any connection to the Black Watch (4th V.B. ) or Glenalmond OTC.

Strange that with an apparent scottish connection it is all brass

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

Steve,
I presume you do not know what the double headed eagle badge is, if you do apologies.
If you have a copy of Cox look at 1902 Glenalmond College- very similar badge but with 3 part scroll below. Cox says the illustrated badge was in gilding metal and in white metal.
Could your badge have once had a bottom scroll ?
P.B.

[dragonz18]

I know the ones that you refer to, but if there is any association with them here, then it is not one that I'm aware of.
Would have thought that if it was a purely 'fantasy' item ,then I'd have seen others over the long time that I've had it. Especially on Ebay??
Looks correct in all aspects of it's construction.
It has never had a bottom scroll,as far as I can assertain. Will check again though. The other that I've seen was in a very large & long time Scottish collector's collection. He also had no explanation to offer.

Cheers !
Steve

[KLR]

Peter,
It's not an "official" Kings pagri badge but could well be a private purchase item.
If it is a pagri badge you should be able to tell by the fixings - ie a brooch type pin.
Or, possibly a very long (c. 60mm) "slider"
Julian

[John Mulcahy]

Keith

amongst the Irish Regiments several had metal Pagri Badge designs that were different than the FSC or Forage Cap designs. Shown below are pagri badges for

The Royal Irish Rifles - the one shown being an Officer's badge silvered with two loops. I am not sure if O/Rs worn an equivalent version.

The Royal Irish Regiment - Other Ranks post 1881 die struck white metal. Fitment on this one being a pin with hook.

Both of these from my reference files - alas I do not have examples. The Connaught Rangers also had a distinctive metal Pagri Badge - I shall post a photo later.

As you probably know the Irish guards used a large version of their Forage Cap star as a FS helmet badge

John

[John Mulcahy]

Two connaught Rangers Pagri Badges. The colour image from e-bay a while back is exactly in line the pagri badge shown by Jourdain in his regimental history as being worn in 1885. Unfortunately Jourdain does not indicate the metal.

The black & white image from a reputable auction house - a cast WM post 1881 pagri badge with pin fitting.

[Peter Brydon]

Julian,

Previous badge illustrated sold by a well known auction house as an officers pagri badge.This is more like you would expect.
Peter

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Julian,

Previous badge illustrated sold by a well known auction house as an officers pagri badge.This is more like you would expect.
Peter

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Steve's London Scottish was one I should have also mentioned and was aware of. Maybe these different patterns were in the main an officers thing as I think the Suffolks' also wore a large brass two towered castle for their Foreign Service Helmet. I don't think the pagri strapping was worn at home.

[Peter Brydon]

Dragoz18,
I have been thinking about you Perthshire badge and wonder if it might not be military at all.

It could be some thing like a Perthshire Police or a Perth Corporation Badge.This might explain the metal,the lack of title scroll and absence of it in any book on military badges.
Peter

[dragonz18]

Peter,
many thanks for the replies.
It has forced me to dig it out & re-examine the Perthshire badge very closely.
Though not obvious,at first glance, to the naked eye ,with a jeweler's glass it is now obvious that the scroll has been professionaly(?) removed. Very neat job indeed, here & looks to be quite an old alteration! I assume there is a proper/special reason behind this ,as I've seen another the same ,in an 'older' Scottish collection.
Would a badge ,other than military, have a slider ?
Still thinking here.

Cheers !
Steve

[Peter Brydon]

Dragonz,

The answer is yes,non military badges can have sliders,for example police cap badges,but I now think you have a badge of the Glenalmond OTC which as you say has been altered.

I have a Liverpool Irish badge which not only has a bronze finish but has had the bottoms scrolls on either side neatly cut away leaving only the middle"Kings" scroll it also has a longs slider. I know if is 100% genuine but I have no idea what it was worn on.could be a sweetheart ( but I doubt it ).

Hope someone might be able to add some further ideas.

Peter