Pagri Badges

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Does anyone have their own definitve list or photos in their collections of pagri badges which differed from the forage/field service caps in pattern? Discount any helmet plate centres with sliders please .

The ones I can think of at present are as follows:

East Surrey's. The small star shaped badge without a scroll. Often seen on ebay in brass and I've never seen a proper one although the 2nd VB had a w/m version.

Cameronians. Smaller than the 'normal' badge?

KOYLI. The large bugle about three times the size of the 'normal' badge

Hampshire's. Wreath, tiger and rose all in brass surmounted by a QVC. 1st & 2nd Btns slightly different.

Any others?

I have a Royal Welsh Fusiliers badge that is notably smaller than the norm with a long slider and, although it is clearly die stamped crisply, it is unusual in that it is all brass and has an almost flat and solid back as opposed to the usual concave. I am surmising that it is a pagri badge (probably from the 2nd Battalion around 1900) but I have not been able to find definitive evidence. Perhaps someone can help? It is definitely not an economy issue from WW1, as I have 2 of those and there are significant differences.

[Bantam]

Hi Toby,
Is there any chance you could post a photo which would help considerably with identification please.
Regards
Bantam

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hi Toby,
Is there any chance you could post a photo which would help considerably with identification please.
Regards
Bantam

I'd be interested in seeing too. I'm wondering if it may be a Denbighshire Hussars badge with the bronzing removed?

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hi Toby,
Is there any chance you could post a photo which would help considerably with identification please.
Regards
Bantam

Sorry but it will take me some time to dig out my badges as living away from home in barracks, but I will try and find them at some point. To reiterate, it is an all brass badge, standard RWF design with 'Welsh' spelling and smaller than the normal cap badge. Definitely stamped and not cast but with a solid back and a longer slider. It is not of officer quality and seems for ORs. I have never seen another, nor an illustration in any book.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

I'd be interested in seeing too. I'm wondering if it may be a Denbighshire Hussars badge with the bronzing removed?

Why Denbighshire Hussars? It is a standard RWF badge.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Why Denbighshire Hussars? It is a standard RWF badge.

Sorry, I didn't re-read the original post properly.

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Is there a difference between a pagri badge and a bush hat badge? My initial thoughts are that when the army went to South Africa at the start of the Boer War, existing badges may have been adapted to fit the warm weather headgear. Some bush hat badges appear to have been adapted by means of screw thread.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Stanley_C_Jenkins

Is there a difference between a pagri badge and a bush hat badge? My initial thoughts are that when the army went to South Africa at the start of the Boer War, existing badges may have been adapted to fit the warm weather headgear. Some bush hat badges appear to have been adapted by means of screw thread.

Bush hat badges were almost always secured by lugs/shanks and split pins. Pagri badges had longer sliders to slide between the folds of the pagri - hence pagri badge.

[KLR]

The ACD records at Kew deal comprehensively with different badge fixtures for these types of headgear. Though nobody seems to have seen a photograph of the adapted HPC actually being worn on the Universal Service Dress Hat - which is what the slouch / bush hat was officially termed at the time. Not certain about it on the FSH either (though of course various ones do exist).
As for the FSH, some units, however, wore their badge above the pagri on the upper front of the helmet itself.

[john badge]

I know this is a very old posting guys but I have a bit of relevant info.

The Pagri (or Pugaree) is the cloth band worn around the FSC Helmet.

An ex Welsh Guards pal of mine, who ended up serving in Vietnam with the Australian Army, told me he had heard the term.

The cloth band worn around the Australian Army bush hat is still called a Pagri. And still has a badge, although this is usualy the same as the dress hat badge these days.

[Alan O]

The London Scottish pagri.

[leigh kitchen]

Any ideas on this one? The helmet's a mystery, the photo, of a "Cameronian" was taken in India.
The badge has different scroll ends to that I've seen on Piper's badges.

[magpie]

Manchester regiment Pagri brooch.
Andy.