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  #1  
Old 06-10-20, 11:17 PM
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Default Argyll & Sutherland voided, tail up

Just acquired... seemed a good representative tail-up version. Any other voided tails-up examples out there?
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  #2  
Old 07-10-20, 12:01 AM
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It looks good from the front, but as always, a reverse shot is needed.
Here is my tail up Gaels ORs badge.

CB
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  #3  
Old 07-10-20, 05:07 AM
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impressive! Will post pics of the reverse as soon as it arrives.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-20, 05:58 AM
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This pattern is believed to be an error, produced in 1910, which was corrected in 1913 with the cats' tail under the body.

Neil.
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Old 07-10-20, 08:45 AM
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A boer war period badge I believe.
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  #6  
Old 07-10-20, 09:08 AM
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I havn't looked at it for years, but there is (or was) a web site that showed images and gave details of numerous variations of the A&SH badges, does any one know of the site I mean?
I've searched the web using general general "Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders badges" type terms but can't find it.
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  #7  
Old 07-10-20, 09:20 AM
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I agree and believe these to be later manufacturers errors as they’re poorly rendered and lack quality in both metal used and the strike. The cat looks more like a squirrel or chipmunk and the boar’s head is very wonky. The metal is nearly always grey and near black when tarnished which is very unlike Edwardian era German Silver.

Personally I’d always wondered if these were of c.WW1 manufacture. The suggestion of 1910 would make it an Edwardian badge and I just don’t see the quality in its design, manufacture or materials for it to be that date.

The quality compared to the badge magpie shows the vast difference.

Just my opinion of course.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-20, 03:15 PM
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I would attribute the somewhat wonky look of the beasts to the fretting, which would to some degree would be more difficult to do with great accuracy. Much easier to achieve a proper looking cat when when struck in a solid badge. Many tail under badges don't have the best looking cats either.
I think some could very well be late Edwardian, given that so many were made.

CB
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Last edited by cbuehler; 07-10-20 at 03:32 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-10-20, 12:53 PM
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Mark and CB, I don't think the OP A&SH is from the same die as yours and mine CB.

I circled in my attached photo indicators showing the similarities in our strikes , CB. Also the boar and cat (more squirrel like than cats!) are similar. The OP badge's E doesn't have the flaw at the top, boar and cat shapes are different, and the OP badge has pebbling on the scroll whereas ours don't (arrow). It's harder to see but CB, yours and mine have similar die markings on the thistle stems whereas I don't see these on the OP badge. CB, mine differs from yours with the lug placements but both have similar feet.

Am not implying the OP badge is off or etc., but I do think it's a different strike.

Mike sold a similar voided tail up badge that matches ours, CB.

https://www.qmsmilitaria.com/viewpho...h=54985&phqu=5

Malc has a similar un-voided tail up badge that also looks like it may be from the same die as ours CB, but I can't quite make out some details when I zoom in.

http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/view...h=54480&phqu=3

A&SH O.jpg A&SH R.jpg


Jay
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  #10  
Old 08-10-20, 02:33 PM
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Yes, I agree, they are not from the same die. I can only surmise that there were several variations from different makers. I have never been sure if some void center badges were from the same die as some solid center badges.

CB
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  #11  
Old 08-10-20, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
I agree and believe these to be later manufacturers errors as they’re poorly rendered and lack quality in both metal used and the strike. The cat looks more like a squirrel or chipmunk and the boar’s head is very wonky. The metal is nearly always grey and near black when tarnished which is very unlike Edwardian era German Silver.

Personally I’d always wondered if these were of c.WW1 manufacture. The suggestion of 1910 would make it an Edwardian badge and I just don’t see the quality in its design, manufacture or materials for it to be that date.

The quality compared to the badge magpie shows the vast difference.

Just my opinion of course.
Sorry if I implied the two badges were original Edwardian badges, that's not really what I meant.
I meant that the design/pattern is the 1910 sealed pattern - Voided with tail raised behind the cat.
This pattern was amended in 1913 and sealed again, but with the tail hidden below the cat and this was the pattern that remained unchanged thereafter upto WW2 and beyond.
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Last edited by Parabellum; 09-10-20 at 06:02 AM. Reason: Added words
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  #12  
Old 09-10-20, 02:15 PM
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I have only two A&SH "angry cats", one convex, and voided, the other flat and unvoided.

The convex voided badge has a fat cat, head turned to its left, the flat unvoided badge has a thin cat, head turned to its left.
The convex badge is shown on the tartan swatch that it was mounted on when I bought it 20 - 30 years ago from two old ladies selling vintage fabrics at a Peterborough antiques fair.
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  #13  
Old 13-10-20, 09:24 PM
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badge arrived today. Daylight fading but hopefully these pics tell the tale ( )...
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  #14  
Old 13-10-20, 10:57 PM
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Yes, it does tell the "tail" A nice badge.

CB
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  #15  
Old 14-10-20, 04:10 AM
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The only voided badge i can see in the whole thread with the tail up is Leigh's.

The bushy, squirrell like tail on the others, I don't think is a tail at all and is down to the way the badge has been voided.

The tail should be long and thin.

Neil.
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