Royal Irish Fusiliers 1950's

[Lee]

Good Evening Gents,

I am not a badge man and so was lookimg to find an answer here is possible please?

My grandfather served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers in Korea and Kenya and would like to obtain a Cap badge as worn by him during his time in the army.

He has told me that the badge he wore was a Coronet above at bomb with an eagle in the centre and that it was in one piece. I've looked everywhere for one but can only find either one with a harp or one with an eagle but no coronet.

The only thing i did find was ablazer badge (see image attached).

He's adamant that he wore the badge described but like i said i can't seem to find one anywhere.

I would love to know if the badge existed and wher i could get one for him,

Many thanks,
Lee

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Hi Lee,
Is there a possibility that he was a piper? If so he would have worn the larger version of the badge with the eagle on the ball of the grenade instead of the harp.
The bad news is these are very hard to find. I finally got mine last year after many years of looking.
If you look through my album. You'll see lots of Royal Irish Fusilers badges.
Not in a position to attach pics at the minute, but may do later if I get a chance.

John

[Lee]

John,
Thanks very much for the reply. I can't view your album at the moment as the site won't allow me?
I don't believe he was a piper as he was a National Serviceman, however he did mention to me that the bomb in his badge was bigger which would tie in with what you said. Perhaps he was issued (or acquired) the wrong badge and has always been under the impression that it was correct.
If this is the badge I don't have much hope of getting hold of one then, if it took you several years? I don't suppose there are any modern copies available are there?
Thanks again,
Lee

[1stTankie]

Hi Lee

Could this be the badge, (the second one on the green triangular backing) your grandfather wore?

If he is certain that it had an eagle on it then it could have been the lower badge on the first photograph. This was however only worn by the pipers.

The third photograph is a random selection of RIF badges; he may recognise something there.

Please let me know if I can help further.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Lee]

Hi Gordon,

Thank you very much for taking the time to post the pictures.

I think by the looks of it he's talking about the pipers badge (the lower one on the first picture) as he also made reference to the crown being attached to the bomb as is the case in this one.

Does anyone know where i could get one of these piper badges from as i know he'd love to be able to wear it to his next reunion? I don't mind if it's a modern reproduction.

Many thanks,
Lee

[John Mulcahy]

Lee

There were two head dress badges with the Eagle on the ball of the grenade specifically authorized at this time.

The Full Dress Badge (the larger one in Tankies right hand photo) typically only issued to Bandsmen at this time and unlikely to have been worn by your relative on service. It was only used with full dress.

The pipers badge as indicated by FAB and Tankie and shown in the left hand photo. This, though authorized was not supplied at public expense. The regiment had to pay for it themselves and organise for it's production.

The only other officially authorized badge with the eagle on the grenade at this time was on the collar badges, which are 42mm high. A photo of these is below. Wearing one of these collar badges on head dress would have been an unofficial practice. This pattern was the authorized collar badge pattern from 1926 – 1963.

If your grandfather was not a piper the wear of the smaller collar badge in the cap is the only thing that I can think of.

The official headdress badge in the time was the one shown on the green triangle backing in the earlier posts.

John

[Lee]

John,

Thanks for your reply and the picture. I think he must have been refering to the Collar badges then as he also said that it was fixed using two lugs and a pin.

I have seen Collar badges but with the eagle horizontal.

What would be the reference number from Colin Churchills book for the ones shown in your picture so that i can try and order one for him, please?

Thanks,
Lee

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Hi again Lee,
Finally getting at my computer with my badge pics stored on it. Here's a comparison picture of my piper's badge beside a normal sized cap badge of the Royal Irish Fusiliers. The piper's badge is huge in comparison. They are very sought after by collectors and have been known to sell for a couple of hundred when people are willing to pay that amount at auction. I didn't pay anywhere near that for mine, but I reckon I was very lucky.
I have never seen a reproduction one, and in all honesty would probably have bought one if I could before I got my own. Even the regimental museum in Armagh only has two examples.
My avatar picture is a Royal Irish Fusiliers caubeen of the 1950's era, so that would have been the sort of headdress he would have worn.
John M may well be able to confirm, but I think they may have worn the metal shoulder titles at that time in battledress.
If he is looking for badges for a re-union there is any amount of real and fake stuff on ebay. Don't know where you could get a caubeen though.
I would also recommend to him membership of the combined Irish OCA. London based with lots of old Faughs amongst its members.

http://www.ciroca.org.uk/

Hope we've been able to help rather than completely confuse

John

[Lee]

Hi John,

I went to visit my Grandfather again tonight armed with the pictures from the forum.

Definately not a piper as he knew how large the badges were and continues to insist that his was as small as the "Harp" version.

My conclusion is that for some unknown reason he wore a Collar badge on his caubeen as this would tie in with the size of the badge he has described to me and the fact that it was secured as once piece with two lugs and a pin. This may have been a mistake on his part or the QM, i guess we'll never know.

He is a member of an OCA in London that is made up of the Irish Brigade and so this may be one of the same. He has a caubeen and his green flash and is due to go down to London in November again so may have some more luck there.

Thanks again all for your help on this one, its really appreciated,

All the best,
Lee

[John Mulcahy]

Lee

if it was the collar badge that he wore then the pattern would be Churchill reference 1777.

This is a fascinating thread, do try to find out if your Grandfather can remember or discover if the wearing of the collar badge (if that is indeed what was done) was sanctioned as a "once-off" to deal with cap badge shortages or was a more widespread practice.

John

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Lee

if it was the collar badge that he wore then the pattern would be Churchill reference 1777.

This is a fascinating thread, do try to find out if your Grandfather can remember or discover if the wearing of the collar badge (if that is indeed what was done) was sanctioned as a "once-off" to deal with cap badge shortages or was a more widespread practice.

John

Hi John,
I'm going to stick my neck out here. To the best of my knowledge, the Faughs weren't deployed as a battalion in Korea, but members were attached to the Royal Ulster Rifles to make up a shortfall in numbers as were members of the Royal Inniskillings. It could be possible here that there was a shortage of battalion items in theatre and other items were improvised.
As you say, a fascinating thread with plenty of credibility.
I'm making my way very slowly through their regimental history at the minute. Will have a sneak preview later to see what they did in Korea!

John

[Lee]

John,

Thanks for the reference.

I really do think that he wore a collar badge on his hat but was always under the impression that this was correct.

I'll try and get him to dig out a picture with him wearing the badge,

Cheers,
Lee

[saintconor]

Originally Posted by Faugh-A-Ballagh

Hi John,
I'm going to stick my neck out here. To the best of my knowledge, the Faughs weren't deployed as a battalion in Korea, but members were attached to the Royal Ulster Rifles to make up a shortfall in numbers as were members of the Royal Inniskillings. It could be possible here that there was a shortage of battalion items in theatre and other items were improvised.
As you say, a fascinating thread with plenty of credibility.
I'm making my way very slowly through their regimental history at the minute. Will have a sneak preview later to see what they did in Korea!

John

The Royal Irish Fusiliers served in Korea after the War. Making them eligble for the UN Korea medal but not the Queens Korea medal.

Interesting thread.

Conor

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Lee

John,


I'll try and get him to dig out a picture with him wearing the badge,

Cheers,
Lee

Lee

that would be very interesting, I will look forward to seeing anything you can find.

John

[leigh kitchen]

K&K show the small grenade (but with less triangular flame) with eagle on the ball as 692, but only in volume 1.