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  #16  
Old 27-11-13, 05:06 PM
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Bryan,

Our msgs seem to be crossing each other. I may have answered a couple without noticing your more recent postings.

Thanks for the pics - lace can be a fantastic subject and a collectable offshoot in its own right. Always interested in learning more about it.

I checked the AF lace and compared with some examples I had obtained from clothing store during my RAF(Malta) days. There is no doubt it is RAF.
GTB
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  #17  
Old 27-11-13, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCN View Post
Yes the RCNR lace was a braid type of lace & it was narrower than the RCN straight lace, also the RCNVR lace was I think 3/8" in width. I will check.

Both the wartime RCNR & RCNVR were abolished in 1946 & became the new RCN{R} & from that time on they wore the straight sleeve lace.

I will try to find some RCNR & RCNVR examples & post,

However the lace examples you have posted are definitely modern lace.

B
Case in point. Just noticed yr latest posting.

Looking forward to above examples.

I concur that my lace examples are modern.

GTB
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  #18  
Old 27-11-13, 05:27 PM
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Hi GTB,

No problems, I have read all of yrs! This lace topic is getting interesting!

I have no wartime RCNR uniforms to post but I do have shoulder boards so will photo & post a couple examples of their lace.

I have one 2WW RCNVR uniform so will also photo the lace on sleeve & post as well.

Your RAF lace should be the same as the pre 1968 RCAF regular uniform lace, but I know the RCAF used the gold lace on its mess dress uniform tunic. I was in RCAF museum last month & noted a pre 1968 mess dress with gold lace. I might still have a photo of it, if I do I will post.

B

edit ---Photo located - below....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Curtis, AVM, unif, photo.JPG (77.4 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by RCN; 27-11-13 at 05:33 PM.
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  #19  
Old 27-11-13, 06:16 PM
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GTB here are some examples of Officers lace, wartime RCNR, & RCNVR:

The lace is approx. 3/8" & 5/16" width. Except the RCNVR Warrant Officer example (the thin lace one) is 1/8".

The RNR Lieut example has an RNR button, so expect it was RNR altho it came with an RCNR Officer's medals, so perhaps he wore it. This lace is a type of Russia braid, & is not gold lace as the others.

B
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RCNR LtCr Commander.jpg (53.0 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg RNR Lieut.jpg (41.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg RCNVR Warrrant.jpg (33.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg RCNVR Lt Cr.jpg (71.0 KB, 2 views)
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  #20  
Old 27-11-13, 06:24 PM
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Hi Bryan,
Yes, indeed a very interesting thread.

I also have an RAF white mess tunic with gold lace shoulder boards (KC badges & buttons).

I am posting a pair of RNR Sub-Lt's shoulder boards. Made at a local Military & Naval outfitter's, possibly wartime - I need to further research the date by the address.
(As always, please excuse state of images due to my using a flatbed scanner). No doubt, from what I have been informed, should be identical to RCNR - apart from buttons??
GTB
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File Type: jpg RNR Sub-Lt_0004.jpg (22.8 KB, 5 views)
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  #21  
Old 27-11-13, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCN View Post
GTB here are some examples of Officers lace, wartime RCNR, & RCNVR:

The lace is approx. 3/8" & 5/16" width. Except the RCNVR Warrant Officer example (the thin lace one) is 1/8".

The RNR Lieut example has an RNR button, so expect it was RNR altho it came with an RCNR Officer's medals, so perhaps he wore it. This lace is a type of Russia braid, & is not gold lace as the others.

B
Thanks for images. Great stuff.
Never come across the braid insignia before.
I have read in a reference book that the thin RCNVR WO lace is for RNR Skipper. Could this mean that the same rank distinction was used for both?
GTB
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  #22  
Old 27-11-13, 06:51 PM
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Hi Bryan,

Don't let this one throw you!

Note that it has no provision for a button and is in fact fitted with slip-on tapes. Although it is adorned with RN gold lace, it is in fact a local Customs Senior Officer's epaulette.

GTB
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File Type: jpg laceEpaulette_0002.jpg (32.9 KB, 1 views)
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  #23  
Old 27-11-13, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Hi Bryan,
Yes, indeed a very interesting thread.

I also have an RAF white mess tunic with gold lace shoulder boards (KC badges & buttons).

I am posting a pair of RNR Sub-Lt's shoulder boards. Made at a local Military & Naval outfitter's, possibly wartime - I need to further research the date by the address.
(As always, please excuse state of images due to my using a flatbed scanner). No doubt, from what I have been informed, should be identical to RCNR - apart from buttons??
GTB
Yes Identical to RCNR, the buttons for a Canadian(officer & rating, any class of uniform) would have CANADA embossed on them - & these RCNR shoulder boards are really hard to get over here these days. I only have in my collection what I have shown in my post above & I would love to acquire some more.

B
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  #24  
Old 27-11-13, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Hi Bryan,

Don't let this one throw you!

Note that it has no provision for a button and is in fact fitted with slip-on tapes. Although it is adorned with RN gold lace, it is in fact a local Customs Senior Officer's epaulette.

GTB
Not at all GTB. I have seen these over here, & also many of the similar design Merchant Marine shoulder boards.

B
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  #25  
Old 27-11-13, 07:06 PM
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GTB when you have some time on yr hands - check the RCN section:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...splay.php?f=46

Among my many posts in there I have included some examples of RCN Officer's Insignia & shoulder boards,

B
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  #26  
Old 27-11-13, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCN View Post
GTB when you have some time on yr hands - check the RCN section:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...splay.php?f=46

Among my many posts in there I have included some examples of RCN Officer's Insignia & shoulder boards,

B
will do

GTB
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  #27  
Old 28-11-13, 07:46 AM
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Gd morning Bryan

I gave a cursory glance through your postings and it will evidently take quite a bit of time to really appreciate the content.
While not strictly a 'lace' subject, however a naval rank in it's own right, the insignia for Midshipmen. I may have missed them but if not, did the rank exist within RCN and attendant navies?
I am posting a couple of scans of pairs of turnbacks to the RNR and RNVR. These were found in a box of heavily mothed wartime cloth insignia, including commonwealth pilots' wings which I posted in an earlier post. Unfortunately, there were no white turnbacks there to the RN.
GTB
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File Type: jpg midturnbacks_0001.jpg (25.1 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg midturnbacks_0003.jpg (24.4 KB, 5 views)
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  #28  
Old 28-11-13, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
I have read in a reference book that the thin RCNVR WO lace is for RNR Skipper. Could this mean that the same rank distinction was used for both?
GTB
No, I am pretty certain Skipper would be the RNR type of "twisted" braid or lace, & of the same or very similar thickness. A Skipper was, in theory, a Warrant Officer, or at least was in the 1WW timeframe.

B
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  #29  
Old 28-11-13, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Gd morning Bryan

I gave a cursory glance through your postings and it will evidently take quite a bit of time to really appreciate the content.
While not strictly a 'lace' subject, however a naval rank in it's own right, the insignia for Midshipmen. I may have missed them but if not, did the rank exist within RCN and attendant navies?
I am posting a couple of scans of pairs of turnbacks to the RNR and RNVR. These were found in a box of heavily mothed wartime cloth insignia, including commonwealth pilots' wings which I posted in an earlier post. Unfortunately, there were no white turnbacks there to the RN.
GTB
Yes I have a lot in the RCN section but I wished to cover all of the rate & rank badges & show how the RCN insignia went thru that major insignia change during 1949-1950. & I have not even got to the RCNVR & RCNR officer insignia yet!


I have the RCNVR Midshipman insignia, its identical to the example you have posted but it has, of course, the CANADA button. I don't have an RCNR (blue) example & wish I did. I have been on the lookout for one of those for many yrs, but RCNR material is very hard to come by now as it was a small force in 2WW & not much has survived 70 yrs on. Altho Canada has the 3rd largest Navy during 2WW it was due to the fact that the RCNVR was the largest in terms of manpower. Both the regular RCN & the RCNR were considerably smaller.

I will attach photos of RCN - Officer (Naval) Cadet, & Midshipman lapel insignia.

& I think I better request Bill transfer this whole topic to the RCN section as I feel that's where it belongs now.

B
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Midshipman RCNVR.jpg (66.0 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Officer cadet RCN.jpg (69.7 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Midshipman RCN.jpg (65.8 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by RCN; 28-11-13 at 02:48 PM.
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  #30  
Old 28-11-13, 04:16 PM
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Bryan,

Thanks for posting images of Midshipman insignia. Can you provide images of the backs, please?
You may have noticed that both of my versions have normal RN officers buttons, albeit different makers to both. In fact the KC on the buttons of the RNR turnbacks are larger than those of the RNVR. Actually, the former buttons are slightly larger too. I cannot explain why buttons are not of RNR/RNVR type, but can confirm that the items are authentic.

I agree that the thread may be transferred as you suggested. Since the central theme has turned out to be Canadian naval rank lace, it would be more fitting. After all, my initial query was for assistance in identifying the lace. Now that that has been admirably settled the ensuing information is more in line with detailed data which should be of interest to other members of the forum

GTB
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