More Boonie Badge Idents

[servicepub]

I can understand the reluctance to buy a fifty dollar book if all you collect is one dollar insignia. But many collectors ponder purchase decisions in the hundreds of dollars and they have no one to blame but themselves if they do so without having learned as much as possible beforehand.

I encourage you to go to your library with a list of titles that you would like them to purchase for their reference department. Libraries pay full price for books and I love selling my books to them. Libraries have money for acquisitions and, if no one asks for a specific title (which is then known to be of interest), they will buy any book with no guarantee that anyone will look at it.

The combat cap badges you collect will increase in value and you should do whatever research you can. Phil has pointed out to you that this very forum has a gallery that would provide you with all the necessary tools to identify these. Ed has suggested that you invest some of your limited funds in research material. The difference between a collector and an accumulator is knowledge.

That said, I was surprised to see the Royal Cdn Army Cadets badge and I assume that this is not DND-supplied? I think I will go through a couple of web sites and see what I can discover.

Clive

[Bill A]

Along with book references, personal experience, observations, images, museums and collections, and the artefacts themselves, the Forum is also a reference source. Suggestions on how and where to find information are welcome. That is the purpose of the Forum. We all come here to further our understanding and knowledge of the hobby, and hope for assistance in our research and collecting endeavours.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by Phillip Herring

Can we call truce on the "mud slinging"? I've never heard the field cap/bush cap called a "boonie hat" during my 25+ years in the CF. I have heard it called the "cap, ridiculous" by some of my superiors. If I used that term, nobody would know what I was talking about. In my experience "boonie hat" is an American term, and with no disrespect to our American cousins, one of the things that distinguishes our two nations is our use of the English language. Use the Canadian expression. When I made the error of using an American expression, a veteran collector/soldier once corrected me, we have units, the Americans have outfits. Lesson learned.
Ed has put a great deal of work over the years into his research, particularly in the areas of field uniforms and equipment and people have benefitted from that research, including members of this forum.

Phil

I work in clothing stores for one of our local reserve regiments, and have been in the position for approx. the last 10 of my 25 years of service. One of my duties has been issuing the combat cap badges. I have to admit - I've never heard the old combat cap referred to as a "boonie hat" though I have no doubt it may have been on occasion. Certainly no one I have ever talked to referred to the badges themselves as "boonie hat badges" so I wasn't quite sure what the thread would be about when I saw the list, though an educated guess meant I wasn't surprised.

Not a big deal one way or another, but there is a certain utility in using the correct names for things, if only to facilitate communication - that is, after all, why they were given names to begin with. A true "boonie hat" was an item of gear - by my limited understanding - worn by U.S. servicemen in Vietnam as part of their jungle uniform, and was one of the reasons this bit of slang migrated north, either to refer to our "Robin Hood" style caps, or the U.S. field caps that many purchased and wore in the field as a substitute.

Collectors often come up with their own names for things, as do media types (we all know what a "Hummer" really is and it has nothing to do with the HMMWV, or "Hum-vee") but - and I think this may be the only really serious point - often, use of that slang potentially identifies the user's knowledge of a subject as shallow - which has the disadvantage of making him a mark for con-men and those who seek to take advantage of him.

These are naturally generalities. Some experienced collectors use "collector's slang" because it is easier, or they know their audience will simply understand it better. But I suspect an inexperienced collector making an effort to use correct terminology will be treated better by a vendor or another collector, than an experienced collector using the "silly" terms. He'll find others have more time for him, make better deals with him, and answer more of his questions over the long haul.

For what it is worth.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I wore this hat/Cap in Pet starting in 1983 till they left and we called 'em the "Bush Cap". Big with the "Grunts" but not "Boat People"; they wore a Black Beret w/ no capbadge when in the field. I was Airborne Armoured Recce so we and the leg recce zips did wear them but few had the Regt'l boonie badges. Mine had my old-style cbt nametag and the SSF smock wings under the rear flap. The Inf guys usually had paracord chin strings, but we were discouraged from them due to being mounted and getting snagged happened a little more quickly and had more dire consequences than a grunt walking.

Name tags were big for the reserve units in Calgary also, and as you note, paracord chin-straps. Also, for some reason, hand grenade pin rings. The combat caps were well-loved, though the brims were far too small. Many were just tatters by the time we got our CADPAT issue.


Another addition was the camo retaining band from the helmet cover, with the "cat's eyes" on the back, sewn onto the headband of the cap.

Apologies to the original poster if this is off-topic. For what it is worth, from what I can tell, our CADPAT field caps are almost universally unadorned with anything, but there seems to be a wider array of helmet coverings, including arid CADPAT (saw at least one on the range this weekend, naturally he was an Afghanistan veteran), issue netting, and of course different scrim styles. There were certainly ways to personalize the steel helmets, but I get the sense they were worn a lot less often than the newer helmets.

[Tanker Mike]

Here is my old lid, we did not have a combat badge for SALH when I was in, must have come later.

I have some combat cap badges for trade as well, PM me if interested. I am looking for Scottish or Quebec regiments.

Airborne
PPCLI
RCAC
Engineers
RCAF

Has anyone ever seen a Yukon Regiment combat hat badge?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by Tanker Mike

Here is my old lid, we did not have a combat badge for SALH when I was in, must have come later.

...

Has anyone ever seen a Yukon Regiment combat hat badge?

I don't think Thompson lists one in his book, and the DND site which had pictures of all of the then-current ones did not have it listed (though of course at that time the Yukon Regiment was defunct, though I believe a cadet corps still exists that bears the name). I'd have to double-check to be completely certain. Given the date they went to the Supplementary Order of Battle (i.e. in 1968), I wouldn't be surprised to find that they never had one, but never say never.

Great example of the elastic retaining band and cat's eyes I mentioned above. I don't remember seeing the short combat title sewn to the cap before; kind of a good idea given how indecipherable the cap badges usually were. Thanks for posting the pictures.

[Bill A]

The combat cap was not a general issue item for reserve army armoured units. In my understanding the black beret is the headdress worn in the field. Without the cap on issue, there was no need for combat cap badges. Combat cap badges are not found for most reserve armoured regiments. There are some exceptions, for example the regular force armoured units, the RCD, LdSH, Fort Garry Horse and the VIII Hussars were issued combat cap badges, but these were early issue circa 1970. Note there is not a combat cap badge for the 12e Régt Blindé. There are combat cap badges for the Queen's York Rangers, but I haven't seen combat cap badges for any other reserve armoured regiment. Sorry, correction, there is newer issue combat cap badge for the Fort Garry's.

[Phillip Herring]

From what I have seen, the combat badges were issued pre-unification to the Regular Corps and Regiments. After unification, it seems they were not issued until the late 1980s, early 1990s. Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable than myself can confirm or correct.
I recall there were some branch combat cap badges that were privately manufactured - LORE, C&E and Logistics come to mind.
The Canadian Airborne Regiment wore their combat shoulder titles on the field cap for the longest time.

Phil

[Bill A]

Hello Phil, You are correct re the early issue. Combat badges were issued to the regular force units circa 1964-1970. (Combat uniforms were not introduced until 1964.) After unification combat cap badges continued in wear by the regular infantry regiments, but I am not sure if they were system issue or regimetal purchase. As reserve infantry units were issued combat uniforms, (mostly in the mid-late 1970s), they often purchased combat cap badges on thier own initiative. Lots of examples of these private purchase badges, including a kc Algonquin Regt badge (and a qc light green pattern) , 91st A&SH, Brock Rif, Camerons of Ottawa, CGG, 48th High, FMR, GGFG, G & SF, HF of C, Irish Regt, Linc & Weld, Loyal Eddies, Nova Scotia Highrs, PL Fus, Queen's York Rang, Rock MR, North Sask R RHLI, Roy Mont Regt, Royal Regt, Roy Westmr R, R Winnipeg R, Tor Scots, and Volt. All of these are distinctly different than the system issue of the early 1990's.
This doesn't include branch badges. There are non-system issue badges for the Signals, Medical, Securitas, Log, Int, Lore, Adm, and Airforce branches. This list is by no means exhaustive.

[sarge5020]

Here is my 2 cents. I have heard the term “Boonie cap”, “combat cap”, “field cap” and “soft cap” many times over the 30 years that I put in. A rose is a rose etc. For most of the time, I wore the Armoured Corps badge on mine. In the late 1990’s we were issued a Windsor Regiment badge for them. The badges were a one-time order. By the time that the stocks ran out, we were into the new CADPAT uniform and so far, no badges for the soft caps.

I have attached two different Armoured Corps badges and the Windsor Regiment badge along with the cap that I used to wear.

Cheers,
John

[Pylon1357]

Hi Phillip, my following comments have nothing really to do with identifying these badges as I am quite proficient at identifying Combat Hat Badges. I cannot find the section we have here that shows them. I wouldn't mind seeing what the members have put together. I do see the post 1953 section, are they in there?

I do have to agree, references are the key. If either in book format or online references. I have many many reference books that cover the bulk of what I collect. My collection runs from Canadian Insigna, helmets and headgear, bayonettes, webbing and uniforms.

[Tanker Mike]

Very nice armoured badges, the ARMOUR one is very unusual, I wonder why the word ARMOUR and not RCAC (maybe confusion with army cadet) the windosr badge is nice, if you have any to trade PM me.

[Bill A]

When unification was imposed on the Canadian army, RCN and RCAF, the corps of the army were reorganized to include the elements of all three serivces. At the same time, most of the old army "corps" were re-named branches. The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps was re-named the Armoured Branch for a period of time, as were other corps, like the RCIC was changed from Royal Canadian Infantry Corps to the Infantry Branch. (Just recently some of the branches were allowed to rename / re-organize as corps. The Armoured Branch returned to its previous corps name sometime in the late 1980's?) The cap badge represents the time period that the RCAC was the Armoured Branch.

[Phillip Herring]

In Badges of the Canadian Forces, the Armoured Branch is shown with "ARMOUR" on the badge, but the description says it should be "CANADA".
Has anybody got the metal badge with ARMOUR beneath the mailed fist?

Phil

[Tanker Mike]

Here is what I believe is the first combat hat cloth cap badge, the seller states that it is for the Construction Maintance Unit of the RCAF, note the kings crown.

But what manner of headdress would be used for this cap badge, some type of soft cap I would imagine.

Nice looking badge with the red in the crown.

Item 251179183236