Charlton errors?

[Bill A]

There was a string on the errors in Mazeas, but we have not discussed errors in the Charlton price guides. For example, I can not find any reference for the Remount Depot 11-1, in the Charlton books.
Any other observations?

[whizzbang]

Hi Bill,

Here are a few to get the ball rolling (Infantry, 2nd edition):

- PPCLI officers FIRMIN gilt/silver badge is post-war, I believe
- Missing Babin 5-3, VRC
- omission of WM version of Cameron Highlanders pattern 43B
- omission of of imperial pattern BW badge for the 73rd RHC
- 46th Bn badge described as having a buffalo as opposed to a lion; 46A-2 is described as pickled brass but I have only ever seen pickled copper, which is not listed
- 49th Bn windmill pattern is stated to be "questionable" as to being a CEF pattern, not true as has been discussed on the forum in the past
- 63rd Bn - Jackson not listed as a maker
- 91st Bn has a voided version as well
- 122nd pattern missing (a la Bill A)
- typo - 137th is noted as "Durham Battalion"
- different prices for 259-2 and 260-2; 259-21 and 260-21; I defy anyone to tell the difference!
- after badge No. 263, the numbering in the tables goes off the rails! (e.g., the badge 263 is listed as 270 in its table); this problem goes through to the end of the book...

Some general issues too - e.g., in the infantry book uncoated brass and copper versions of badges are never noted though I'm sure many existed - and some of the the ones kicking around today weren't just polished down to the metal. I have a 3rd Bn JR Gaunt badge I am sure was never coated.

Good thread - I'm sure there are loads more issues...

By the way, Bill - Remount Depot (Babin 11-1) is on p. 182 of the Corps book...

Cheers, Ian.

[Bill A]

Thanks Ian. Summer haze, couldn't see the book...pages... too many pages...
Actually, there is still an error there. Charlton has the remount depot under the CASC, but according to other sources, it was part of the CAVC.

[whizzbang]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Thanks Ian. Summer haze, couldn't see the book...pages... too many pages...
Actually, there is still an error there. Charlton has the remount depot under the CASC, but according to other sources, it was part of the CAVC.

That makes sense to me too, Bill. I have been cataloging my badges on an Excel spreadsheet (never learned databases!), generally following the Charlton table of contents but I put the Remount Depot under CAVC.

Any other Charlton errata/omissions?

Cheers, Ian.

[QSAMIKE]

Hi Bill.....

As mentioned before..... 15-1-1 Canadian Military Headquarters

This was a Civilian WW2 Badge....

Mike

P.S. I have a photo of 6 of the ladies wearing the badge taken at C.M.H.Q., Bromyard Avenue, Acton Vale, 1943

[N.S. Regt.]

Some errors I would like to point out with some of the nova Scotian Badges from the second edition.

25th Battalion

Badge with white medal overlay listed as officers. I have a number of badges that came with personal effects that were issued to other ranks a couple of which were still on caps. I also have a number of late war photos of these men wearing them. Most badge books list these badges as officers and no one seems to notice how common these badges are they seem to be the most common badge next to the one piece brass Tiptaft badge. Tiptaft also made a white metal badge and collars but these are fairly scarce these are made with no maple leaf. I do have one Gaunt badge which is a gilded overlay on a white metal maple leaf made just like the white metal on brass version by Gaunt so far it is the only one I have seen like it I have not been able to attribute this badge and it may be a private purchase.

Ommission of the officers badge made by G&S Co. gilded overlay on cast bronze maple leaf or the lugged version of the overlay. They come marked and unmarked and with north south and east west lugs. All the collars I have seen so far are also gilded and can be marked and unmarked and have no maple leaf.

Ommission of shoulder title one version the officers has "NOVA SCOTIA" over "25th" over "CANADA" the second I have only attributed to NCOs has "NOVA SCOTIA" over "25" over "CANADA" and is larger.

85th Battalion

Badges and collicers made for officers by McDougall I have only been able to find three collars so far and know the location of one badge.

No mention of the C/85 collars there is two typs O.R.'s and N.C.O.'s .

106th Battalion

No mention of the officers badge and collars white metal overlay on darkened copper badge.

I also have a "106" number over "Canada" shoulder titile similar to the 112th version.

One other thing I would like to point out is that overlayed Highland Brigade badges 85th, 185th, 193rd, 219th and 246th battalions have two versions first is a two piece for senior N.C.O.'s and the other three piece for officers the books do not distinguish them.

Stephen

[whizzbang]

Originally Posted by N.S. Regt.

...they seem to be the most common badge next to the one piece brass Tiptaft badge.

Hi Stephen,

Wrt my remark above about non-coated brass and copper CEF badges - I have a one-piece brass 25th Bn that looks to be by Tiptaft (those lugs with the long base). I am sure it was never coated - browning, pickled or otherwise. So could it be the case that this is an example of a plain brass issued CEF badge?

Thanks, Ian.

[N.S. Regt.]

Hi Ian

Those Tiptaft badges and collars seem to have been issued lightly coated in a gilt finish which appears to be easily polished off. The mark on the tiptaft badge may or may not be present some are faint and hard to spot. I only have one which the finish is pristine the others vary from none to having the gilt polished off the high points. Most of the Tiptaft badges have most of the finish missing from them this day and age. The one peice 25th Badge by Gaunt originally had a dark brown finish these badges are a little tough to find. The G&S Co. officers badge the gilt overlay is on copper a number of time I have seen these with the finish polished away. This is why I will not clean badges with anything but a soft brush and warm soapy water if at all.

Stephen

[whizzbang]

Originally Posted by N.S. Regt.

Hi Ian

Those Tiptaft badges and collars seem to have been issued lightly coated in a gilt finish which appears to be easily polished off. The mark on the tiptaft badge may or may not be present some are faint and hard to spot. I only have one which the finish is pristine the others vary from none to having the gilt polished off the high points. Most of the Tiptaft badges have most of the finish missing from them this day and age. The one peice 25th Badge by Gaunt originally had a dark brown finish these badges are a little tough to find. The G&S Co. officers badge the gilt overlay is on copper a number of time I have seen these with the finish polished away. This is why I will not clean badges with anything but a soft brush and warm soapy water if at all.

Stephen

Thanks Stephen. I think what I took as "old brass patina" is in fact what you say, a light gilt finish - and the finish on my badge seems to be well preserved! Link to pic below.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=17004

Anyway, this type of finish seems to definitely be an omission in Charlton.

Cheers, Ian.

[N.S. Regt.]

Hi Ian

I am not sure if I would call it a omission as such as I believe all the badges originally had this finish. Due to polish and over cleaning very few survive today with it intact a lot of cases it is just preserved on the back or trace on the front. When I bought my pristine example I paid over the going rate for it due to the fact that you rarely find them with the finish intact. Looking at your badge it is definitely the Tiptaft version. I have included a couple of photos to show what I am trying to say. The badge on the left although in great shape shows only trace amounts of the gilding on the front the one on the right is intact there is quite a color difference. The backs however both show the gilding pretty much intact with very little difference being noted. Please also note both these badges are marked just above the stem on the back of the badge.

Stephen

[marway_wayne]

Bill. I noticed some time ago a number of errors on a particular run of badges in the book. From the second edition, blue cover, Infantry badges.
No 63B, page 119.
No 66B, page 123.
No 138B, page 231.
No 151D, page 250.

You will note these are all Edmonton Battalions, same design and all listed as unknown makers. I have noted over the years Sweetheart pins, collar badge size of the above. You will note that the picture shows a Collar and Cap, but if you look closely at the Cap it is an enlarged collar. I feel that a local firm made these up as sweethearts for the Battalions and Charlton took some liberties and made Caps out of the Collars. I have seen collar but never seen a Cap, if anyone has would like to see it. Hope this adds a little to the list. Wayne.

[whizzbang]

Sharp observation, Wayne! I took a close look and I'm absolutely certain that some of those "caps" are just the collar photo enlarged! I wonder on what basis they made the decision to fudge the photos? (heh heh - map makers used to add deliberate errors on their maps as a method to identify unauthorized copies - maybe Charlton made up a badge for a similar purpose! )

Cheers, Ian.