Is badge collecting becoming too numismatic?

[KLR]

I've been a numismatist for about 30 years although I've never actually collected coins ! I catalogue, analysis and publish coins from archaeological sites (I work for a museum).
I've never bought anything off coin dealers though I've studied their catalogues occasionally to compare certain pieces. Badge catalogues are very different and only provide basic information to my mind.
I've collected badges on and off for longer - I know what scutteliphilly means but I had not heard of faleristics ! - but when I started / restarted to collect them seriously and actually study them as objects, I used the same approach as I have done with coins and I endorse much of what David S writes (post 7). The end analysis - on use, distribution etc however - is completely different.

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Bill et al,

Great question Bill.

I must admit I too had to do a quick Dictionary search for Faleristics...can't wait to say "BUT I AM FURTHERING FALERISTIC RESEARCH AND PRESERVATION" on my wife next time she complains about how much I spent on an item.

I have a minor hobby of coin and note collecting so I have used at times for my badge/medal/cloth purchases, and only in a very limited and general basis the same type of grading criteria. That being said, for me Condition and Grading in this sense has never been the most important criteria to my Militaria collecting and I cannot recall if it ever prevented a Militaria purchase.

I too echo the same observations made in post 7 and add the following:

Militaria to me first and foremost is a very personal vocation and I do it primarily in honour and memory of my Grand Father's Second World War Service...whereas whenever I have collected a coin/note there has been absolutely no such corresponding meaning or feeling. I display in my office some of my Militaria collection as conversation pieces to educate and engage my employees and customers in discussion. My hope is that the artifacts/memorabilia aid in the historical story telling process about what was accomplished by our Veterans. So for me the intent behind both fields is different: in Militaria it is about amongst many things service/sacrifice/comradeship… whereas coin/note collecting to me is more about commerce. Thus a similar grading system could be somewhat incompatible.

To add to what some of Forum Members have said here are some further criteria beyond condition that I think about when I buy Militaria: My Grand Fathers Regiment, Variety (i.e.: Makers/Materials,OR's/Officers/OSD), Time Period of Production, Rarity of Production, Provenance/Historical Significance, Battle Field Relic/Dug Relic, and finally the I JUST HAVE TO BUY IT. The last one usually costs me a lot in money as I am sure it does for most of you who have done that.

To close...I will put in a shameless plug for anyone interested in selling Le Regiment de la Chaudière items...if I don't have it I might be a buyer...PM me.

Mike Kennelly

[Donny B.]

Check out PHALERISTICS (faleristics).

According to my sources it seems that phaleristics is,"a branch of numismatics devoted to the science , study and collectina of the insignia of orders, decorations and medals. The term originated in Czechoslovakia around 1937 and is derived from "falera", a Roman military decoration. The term is more widely used in Europe."

Personally I would be a bit disappointed to see badges graded in the same manner as numismatic items.

Donny B.

[davec2]

Originally Posted by Bill A

From wikipedia...
Faleristics is an auxiliary science of history which studies items worn by members of military or military-style organizations, for example orders, medals, decorations and their systems (for example, a system of awards in one country, like the British honors system).

It also studies badges and pins created for civilian usage and can be used to refer to the collecting thereof.

So, the items we collect, the cloth titles and patches, and the metal badges appear to fall under the two definitions.

Hi Dave, Numismatics is defined by wikipedia as:
Numismatics (Latin: numisma, nomisma, "coin"; from the Greek: νομίζειν nomízein, "to use according to law") is the study or collection of currency, including coins, tokens, paper money, and related objects. While numismatists are often characterized as students or collectors of coins, the discipline also includes the broader study of money and other payment media used to resolve debts and the exchange of goods.
There has been a trend in some quarters to grading or describing military badges by numismatic criteria, as in mint unissued, or good or very good. The later terms have me completely baffled. I have not been able to figure out what these mean. How much of the original badge has been removed? Usually through wear or polishing.

Cheers Bill,

Why didn't I think of ' Wikipedia ' ??

I think that after reading all that has been written here and understanding a fraction of what was said, I will just stick to the age old problem of genuiene or not, that's a head-ache for me in itself but I agree, you have raised a very interesting question with this thread but I'm afraid it went mostly over my head........

Dave.