|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Loyal Regiment and Brigade Seniority
I happen to have bought this BD blouse badged to the 1st Btn The Loyal Regiment, 1st British Division. Just wondering why the Brigade bars are two, since The Loyals were in the 2nd Infantry Brigade, senior brigade in the division. The Bevo combination sign seems to have been folded somewhen so as to show only one bar denoting seniority and successively restitched fully extended: any hints of the Loyal Regiment having been transferred to a Brigade second in seniority within 1st Division? any evidence of use of a different system of seniority bars in the 1st Division? When was the "Loyals" title introduced? Thank you for your help and knowledge, gents!
|
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Surely the 1st Brigade is the Senior in the Division?
regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
1st Guards Brigade would have been Senior but has been with the 1st Division only 03/09/39-01/06/41 and the BD blouse is dated 1942, as long as I can see. If 2nd Brigade became Senior in 1941, the formation sign should not be unfolded, but folded so as to show only one bar, isn't it?
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
I appreciate the 1st Brigade moved on in 1941 but it was replaced by another Brigade, in this case the 210th and then the , 38th, 24th, 18th and then the 66th so the 2nd Brigade always remained the 2nd didnt it?
__________________
Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Loyal Regiment and Brigade Seniority
The 1st Infantry Division was made up of the following
1 Inf Bde (Gds) 3.9.39 - 1.6.41 2 Inf Bde 3.9.39 - 31.6.45 3 Inf Bde 3.9.39 - 31.8.45 210 Inf Bde 25.11.41 - 12.1.42 38 (Irish) Inf Bde 13.1.42 - 7.6.42 34 Tk Bde 8.6.42 - 2.9.42 25 Tk Bde 3..9.42 - 13.11.42 24 Inf Bde (Gds) 6.12.42 - 7.3.44 18 Inf Bde 8.3.44 - 16.8.44 66 Inf Bde 19.8.44 - 31.8.45 The 2nd Inf Bde took over seniority on 1.6.41 when the 1st Inf Bde (Gds) left the division In June 1942 the division changed to a mixed division and Tank Brigades were added to it. Surely they would have taken seniority as they were Cavalry. Just an idea Ian |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Cheers, Dan. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Another conundrum to me would be that the woven badge with bars and embroidered title would be very late war, would they not?
CB |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Perhaps worn later (1946-1947) in Palestine and / or Egypt when 1 LOYALS were serving in the 1st Infantry Division.
Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest." |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
1 Loyals have been serving in the 1st Division for the duration of the war, in the 2nd Infantry Brigade. Do you happen to know the composition of the 1st Infantry Division after the war? Could have been in the division a brigade that preceded 2nd Infantry Brigade as seniority is concerned?
|
#11
|
||||
|
||||
1st Div 45-48
Palestine
66 Brigade; 6th Gordon Highlanders 11th Lancaster Fusiliers 1st Hertford Regiment 2 Brigade; 2nd Royal Scots North Staffordshire Regiment Loyal North Lancaster Regiment 3 Brigade; 2nd Sherwood Foresters 1st Kings Shropshire Light Infantry 1st Duke of Wellington Regiment THEN 1st Guards Brigade; 3rd Grenadiers 3rd Coldstream 1st Welsh 2nd Infantry Brigade; 2nd Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1st Suffolk Regiment 1st Highland Light Infantry 3rd Infantry Brigade; 1st Kings Own Scottish Borders 2nd Royal Lincolnshire Regiment 2nd Royal Irish Fusiliers As told to me by my father who served in 1st Guards Brigade, 1st Inf Division Tim. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Not only would the uniform insignia need to be changed but other aspects of affiliation would also have suffered. Each battalion and brigade headquarters had a vehicle unit sign, white numerals on red, green, or brown, background for infantry, that denoted the seniority of the brigade within the division, and the battalion within the brigade. Although many types of vehicles had these fitted in brackets, others had them painted directly onto the body, necessitating labour and material which were no doubt in short supply, not to mention time-consuming, to change while more important operational matters were in progress. Brigades were also generally affiliated with certain divisional units (all with their own seniority) and there may have been no interest in disturbing these affiliations. Just a thought. Keith Last edited by fairlie63; 12-12-19 at 06:38 AM. |
|
|