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  #1  
Old 28-10-18, 09:15 PM
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Default 17th Reinforcements

Picked up these today, has anyone got any opinions on them.
Thanks, Andy
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  #2  
Old 29-10-18, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie View Post
Picked up these today, has anyone got any opinions on them.
Thanks, Andy
Hi Andy,
All look alright to me. A good pickup!
Cheers, Tinto
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  #3  
Old 31-10-18, 04:41 PM
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Thanks for your reply and pm John, would anyone know of just how long these badges would have been used for, training and transit then discarded when sent to a battalion or did they stay together.
Thanks Andy
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Old 31-10-18, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by magpie View Post
Thanks for your reply and pm John, would anyone know of just how long these badges would have been used for, training and transit then discarded when sent to a battalion or did they stay together.
Thanks Andy
Hi Andy,
Most NZ Reinforcement men arrived at Sling Camp on the Salisbury Plains and after a short time of further training were posted to regiments on the Front. Some may have stayed together. For example, my granduncle was in the 19th Reinforcements and was later posted to 1st Canterbury Infantry Regiment with some of his Reinforcement mates.
Hence, when issued with their regimental badges, a lot of Reinforcement badges ended up in Britain some exchanged or given to friends.
Regards, John

Last edited by Tinto; 31-10-18 at 05:01 PM. Reason: typo
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  #5  
Old 31-10-18, 05:32 PM
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Thank you John again, so it sounds like they may have been badged as **reinforcements for transit purposes mainly, that's unless you or someone else can tell me otherwise.
Thanks, Andy
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  #6  
Old 31-10-18, 06:31 PM
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Thank you John again, so it sounds like they may have been badged as **reinforcements for transit purposes mainly, that's unless you or someone else can tell me otherwise.
Thanks, Andy
These Reinforcement badges were unofficial and ordered and paid for by the individual soldiers themselves.
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  #7  
Old 31-10-18, 06:39 PM
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Hi Andy,
Here are extracts from my granduncle's service records as an example of the time he would have been wearing his Reinforcement badges.

24 July 1916 Posted to F Company 19th Refts. as Private
20 Sep 1916 Promoted to L.Corp.
15 Nov 1916 Embarked Transport No.68 Wellington
29 Jan 1917 Disembarked Transport No.68 Devonport, United Kingdom
29 Jan 1917 Marched In Sling, L.Corp. in 4th Res. Btn. C.O. Regt. 1st Cant. Coy.
29 Jan 1917 Deprived of Lance Stripe, reverts to the ranks 1st Cant. Coy.
1 Mar 1917 Proceeding Overseas, left for France, Pvte., 1st Cant. Coy.
3 Mar 1917 Marched into Camp Etaples
25 May 1917 Joined Battn. And posted to 1st Coy., 1st Battn. Canterbury Infantry Regt.

It was typical that Reinforcement NCOs lost their rank when posted to the Front.

John
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Old 31-10-18, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie View Post
Thank you John again, so it sounds like they may have been badged as **reinforcements for transit purposes mainly, that's unless you or someone else can tell me otherwise.
Thanks, Andy

Worn in camp In New Zealand, and on the transports. The soldiers took pride in their individual reinforcements identity, and their badges. In the case of infantry, the badges become standardized from the 34th reinforcements(pictured) The mounted rifles still maintained stylized Pegasus and other designs though.
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  #9  
Old 31-10-18, 09:21 PM
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Both of you many thanks, what you've said gives me and I'm sure a few others out there a better understanding of the badge and the reinforcements.
Thanks, Andy
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  #10  
Old 28-11-19, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinto View Post
Hi Andy,
Here are extracts from my granduncle's service records as an example of the time he would have been wearing his Reinforcement badges.

24 July 1916 Posted to F Company 19th Refts. as Private
20 Sep 1916 Promoted to L.Corp.
15 Nov 1916 Embarked Transport No.68 Wellington
29 Jan 1917 Disembarked Transport No.68 Devonport, United Kingdom
29 Jan 1917 Marched In Sling, L.Corp. in 4th Res. Btn. C.O. Regt. 1st Cant. Coy.
29 Jan 1917 Deprived of Lance Stripe, reverts to the ranks 1st Cant. Coy.
1 Mar 1917 Proceeding Overseas, left for France, Pvte., 1st Cant. Coy.
3 Mar 1917 Marched into Camp Etaples
25 May 1917 Joined Battn. And posted to 1st Coy., 1st Battn. Canterbury Infantry Regt.

It was typical that Reinforcement NCOs lost their rank when posted to the Front.

John
Hello John.
Of further interest would be why Reinforcement NCO's lost their rank when posted to the Front?
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  #11  
Old 29-11-19, 02:16 AM
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Hi John

Many Reio badges have a small "R.D." (Registered Design) number stamped as part of the badge die and therefore appearing on the badge in tiny little raised numbers (e.g. R.D. 324 - I can't say if this is a real number but you get the idea!).

I think that these designs were registered by the maker so you might find them in the archives in NZ. The point is that the number usually corresponds to the date of the formation of the Reio.

I seem to recall making some posts about the Returned Soldier's Assoc badge and this is: "R.D. 861"

This corresponds to around April (?) 1916 and was the date of the formation of the Association.

Early badges had this stamped on the reverse of the RSA badge whereas the later badge (1918 onwards) had the R.D. number stamped in raised letters/ numbers on the front of the badge much like the Reio badges.

Therefore any Reio badges with a number higher than 861 will be formed after this date.

Your 17th badge may have those letters/ numbers somewhere above the base scroll, either to the left or right.
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  #12  
Old 29-11-19, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayrifle View Post
Hello John.
Of further interest would be why Reinforcement NCO's lost their rank when posted to the Front?
Hello xrayrifle,

Most ranks were acting or temporary for the duration of the particular draft overseas. The fact is that many acting NCOs had no more training than the other members of their draft, just simply demonstrated leadership skills or other traits that were sufficient for the purposes of getting the draft on the ship and overseas.

If you were appointed an acting sergeant of a reinforcement draft you could hardly expect to have your rank confirmed when you marched into an infantry battalion in the front-line - no experience or knowledge, plus no doubt a long line of experienced potential NCOs already in waiting.

In other words the battalion needed to know that you knew your job before you were given the responsibility of command.

Keith
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  #13  
Old 01-12-19, 04:47 AM
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Nice 17th badges Andy

I have included a picture of Private Eric Bagnall, 17th reinforcements A Company, Service No. 26762.

In Regards to an "Registered Design number" your badge frame does not have one, it is a generic design that was first worn by the 13th Reinforcements, and was primarily sold by Trentham Camp jeweller Horace William Lloyd.

17th reinforcements A Company, Private Eric Bagnall, Reg No 26762.jpg
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  #14  
Old 02-12-19, 02:03 AM
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Hi

If you are looking for photos of NZ soldiers that clearly show badges, etc. you could do worse that go to the Auckland Public Library "Heritage Images Online".

They have a series of glass plate negs that were taken by Herman (?) Schmidt of soldiers leaving for the front.

There would be at least 300 images (maybe more) and you can often find that they have identified the individual, his service number and his draft.

I could be wrong but that great picture of Bagnall looks very much like one of these studio images.

An excellent archive of what was worn and by whom!
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  #15  
Old 03-12-19, 06:23 AM
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Yes indeed, the picture of Bagnall was by Auckland photographer Herman John Schmidt, found on the Heritage Images site.
Heres another Schmidt gem, a "B" (Wellington) company reinforcement badge being worn with Auckland collar badges.

15th Reinforcements, B Company Private Mark William Thompson, Reg No 15803.jpg
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