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  #1  
Old 22-02-19, 12:08 PM
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Default Officers Service Dress Badges OSD

I have been sorting through my Devonshire Regiment Officers badges to make a new album but I have a couple of questions first.

These 3 badges have very similar fronts, in fact I would say they could be made in the same front die, but the backs are all different.

1. Which of the three are cast and which are pressed/struck?

2. Which of the three are OSD rather than full dress or another type of uniform?

3. The third one has the stumps/remains of bendable blades, so is it a cap badge or a collar badge?

4. The first two are marked J&CO for Jennens, would you also attribute the third one to Jennens or has someone else cast this badge from a Jennens example?

All thoughts welcome.

Rob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg type04 collar example1 JENNENS & CO mark.jpg (51.4 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg type04 collar example2 JENNENS & CO mark.jpg (61.1 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg type04 collar example3.jpg (56.9 KB, 74 views)
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  #2  
Old 22-02-19, 01:10 PM
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1. Which of the three are cast and which are pressed/struck? Number 1 is cast

2. Which of the three are OSD rather than full dress or another type of uniform? OSD was bronzed badges

3. The third one has the stumps/remains of bendable blades, so is it a cap badge or a collar badge? It maybe a cast copy taken from a cap badge with blades,

4. The first two are marked J&CO for Jennens, would you also attribute the third one to Jennens or has someone else cast this badge from a Jennens example? Cast from an original.

All thoughts welcome.

Rob[/QUOTE]
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  #3  
Old 22-02-19, 02:21 PM
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Thank you for the reply Alan.

My experience is that very few Regiments used bronzed buttons and rank badges on Officers Service Dress uniform, so OSD is actually referring to the uniform rather than the insignia? Are there any Regiments who had non-bronzed collars as standard on OSD?

And did OSD go out of use before the change from Kings to Queens Crown?

Rob
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  #4  
Old 22-02-19, 04:17 PM
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OSD is the uniform. Originally bronze badges were introduced for it when it was introduced in the Edwardian era.

My grandfather was Devons in WW2 and his OSD collars were the large sized ones in bronze.
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  #5  
Old 23-02-19, 07:37 AM
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Badge one above was cast and badge two was struck, was the front die universal for these two processes or are these two very similar dies possible made from a master die?

Rob
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  #6  
Old 23-02-19, 08:45 AM
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An interesting post - I've been doing the same classification with my (KLR) collection.
Officers Service Dress (OSD) - and by implication the bronzed badges - was introduced by Army Orders (A.O.) 8 of 1902.AO 54/1947 made the officers bronze badge obsolete, but they were certainly worn beyond that !
The first one looks like a proper cast OSD – but the J&Co stamp is new to me – all the ones I’ve ever seen are as that on your second badge.
I thought at first that your second one was an OSD scrubbed or polished down to the brass, but on second thought I wondered if it is a struck OR badge. Yes, I know that “Jennens only made officer’s badges” but I have a couple of KLR badges that I suspect are J&Co OR badges !?
The third badge looks like a ‘theatre made’ cast badge.
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  #7  
Old 26-02-19, 07:11 AM
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Thank you.

Jennen's were taken over by Gaunt in 1924 so presumably in the case of the Devon badges illustrated in the first post they should be before then, so to clarify the use of the second badge was there a full dress uniform on which an Officer would have worn a gilt collar badge?, I have a later Queens crown collar badge but that's bi-metal.

And this question wasn't only concerning the Devon's, what was the situation with other Regular Army Regiments?

Rob
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  #8  
Old 26-02-19, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Thank you.

Jennen's were taken over by Gaunt in 1924 so presumably in the case of the Devon badges illustrated in the first post they should be before then, so to clarify the use of the second badge was there a full dress uniform on which an Officer would have worn a gilt collar badge?, I have a later Queens crown collar badge but that's bi-metal.

And this question wasn't only concerning the Devon's, what was the situation with other Regular Army Regiments?

Rob
Each regiment followed its own policy, but probably endorsed by the Army Dress Committee, although I’m unsure as to how strictly this was observed. Certainly I recall that most, but not all of the unamalgamated regiments (i.e. since 1881) retained OSD Bronze to some degree. There seems to have been a some kind of policy agreed by each administrative Division (Scottish, King’s, etc.). These are those that I recall clearly:

1. Royal Scots - OSDB collar badges.
2. Green Howards - Silver plate collar and cap badges.
3. Cheshire Regiment - Silver and gilt plate collar and cap badges.
4. Royal Welch Fusiliers - OSDB collar and cap badges.
5. KOSB - OSDB collar badges.
6. Duke of Wellingtons Regiment - Silver and gilt plate cap and collar badges.
7. Black Watch - Silver plate collar badges.
8. Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - OSDB collar badges.

This is just from memory, I will be interested to see the recollections of others.

All of the regiments that retained OSDB with service dress wore different badges with blue patrols.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 26-02-19 at 01:56 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-19, 07:56 AM
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Thank you Toby, the Blue Patrols is a bit baffling, is it a full dress or walking out uniform? would it be worn by a colour party, a Regimental band, at a Coronation?

Here is another recent buy, I have always liked badges with a story to tell, this one started out as an OSD Officers collar, at some point the loops were removed and a vertical shank was soldered on, that much is all fact.

These alterations could have been done at any time which is why I hate the current badge "repairing" epidemic which has destroyed so much history, IMHO.

However this alteration appears to have some age, so was it converted so an Officer could wear it on a pagri or a tin helmet or perhaps an other rank obtained it to replace a lost badge, I will never know but I am very happy to have it in my collection.

Rob
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  #10  
Old 12-04-19, 08:50 AM
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Blue Patrols is not Full Dress (ie Red ceremonial) but also known as No1 Dress and worn on formal parades and ceremonial including Weddings.

Where bronze was worn on Service Dress (no 2 Dress), for No1 dress the badges were silver, gilt or silver frosted depending on the regt.

Alan
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  #11  
Old 12-04-19, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Thank you Toby, the Blue Patrols is a bit baffling, is it a full dress or walking out uniform? would it be worn by a colour party, a Regimental band, at a Coronation?

Here is another recent buy, I have always liked badges with a story to tell, this one started out as an OSD Officers collar, at some point the loops were removed and a vertical shank was soldered on, that much is all fact.

These alterations could have been done at any time which is why I hate the current badge "repairing" epidemic which has destroyed so much history, IMHO.

However this alteration appears to have some age, so was it converted so an Officer could wear it on a pagri or a tin helmet or perhaps an other rank obtained it to replace a lost badge, I will never know but I am very happy to have it in my collection.

Rob
Once designated No1 Dress, what had previously been known as blue patrols became formally designated as ‘ceremonial dress’ for those in the Army outside the Household Division and King’s Troop RHA. At that point (from memory only, 1957), in the annually published ‘Army List’ each regiment’s version of No1 dress was listed under ‘full dress’ (replacing what had been described previously) for the first time, e.g. for RWF: blue with scarlet piping. However, it was also used as ‘optional’ Mess Dress for sergeants’ messes, and in officer pattern as the dress when duty Orderly Officer after Tattoo (6pm) and until Last Post (10pm).

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 12-04-19 at 03:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-19, 03:51 PM
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Thank you both.

Rob
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