4th VB Devonshire Regiment cap badge

[Rob Miller]

This subject has been touched on several times but its occured to me that I may have never seen an original 4th Volunteer Battalion Devonshire Regiment cap badge.

Here are a few thoughts on the subject.

1. As a restrike this is one of the most common VB badges on the market and they have been around for a long time which makes me think they are struck in an original die.

2. The die appears to be getting worn out and the quality of these badges is getting worse.

3. I have only seen them with sliders and yet they originate from a period when lugs were more common.

4. I have never seen a Victorian crown version, which makes me wonder when they were first made, not necessarily 1902?

5. A GM version of the restrike exists. Its vaguely possible that a blacked brass version was worn originally by a cyclist section?

6. Last year a well known and respected dealer showed me one of these and told me it was genuine and yet it had all the same faults and a slider, I seem to remember he was asking £70.

7. A very few WM KC 3rd & 5th VB cap badges are in existance and some of these may be fake so the 4th should be a rare badge.

8. Volunteer Battalion had to purchase there own uniforms and badges, the 3rd VB bought some of their buttons in Exeter so its possible that the 4th VB obtained their cap badges locally, however the fact that this die has fallen into the hands of this faker makes me think its probably come from the same manufacturer as many of the older regular restrikes around for some years.

Below are the 3 I have accumulated over the years, I believe that all 3 are restrikes, number 2 doesn't have the low point in the outer circle between "B & T" or the fault in the first "V", but it has the extra fault at the top on the inner circle.

Please feel free to disagree with any or all of the above, and if anyone would like to post a picture of a genuine KC and QVC badge I would be very gratefull.

Rob.

[David Moore]

I saw one of these for sale in York, it was priced at £6. At that price I was tempted to chance it, but managed to control myself. I had my magnifying glass with me and could see lots of faults. It also didn,t feel or look over 100yrs old; more like 6 months. Very interesting thread, I am looking forward to finding a good one, one day.

Happy hunting Dave Moore.

[Mike13]

Hi Rob
Here is the photo.

Regards Mike.

[Rob Miller]

Hi Mike, sorry I only just spotted your reply.

That one looks quite nice, any chance of a picture of the back?

Rob.

[Mike13]

Hi Rob,
Here is a photo of the back of the badge. I have just aquired a copy of my great great Grandfathers obiturary, he died in 1907, and in it it states that he was bandmaster to the 4th Devonshire Volunteers and that a squad of 4th Devon Volunteers headed his funeral procession. The badge was in my grandfathers "odds and ends" box, which my grandmother gave me when he died in 1972.
Regards Mike

[Rob Miller]

Very nice Mike, thanks for sharing the pictures.

Rob.

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi all.

I resurrected this thread as I wanted to ask the more knowledgable on these; what's the consensus'. Been looking for some time, I hope I have one at last.

Regards
Simon.

[Rob Miller]

I'm not sure Simon, it doesn't appear to have all the faults you normily find on a restrike/fake but some of the blobs could be in the V's?

Is it blackened?

Rob.

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Rob, can't say for sure as I don't physically have it. It looks to have been blackened from the pics. Overall, I feel the striking is sharp.

Regards
Simon.

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Rob, I looked at the good badge in this thread and compared it to the one I posted. From what I can tell the V's in the one I posted have that additional metal in them between the verticals. But the E in Devonshire is the same.

Maybe the one good one here is the original striking and the one I posted is from the same die but years later after much use maybe. In any event, I'm probably going to send the one I got back if there's that much doubt.

Simon

[LONGSHANKS]

No other comments, ......

Fancy a final take Rob?

Simon.

[Rob Miller]

This badges has a theoretical 7 year life span (1902-1908) for a part time unit of unknown strengh, in that time mear hundreds would have been struck, almost definitly not enough to wear out or damage the dies.

It looks like the same dies were in use again from the 1970s on, since which time thousands more have been made.

So it seems more likely that the first restrikes would have been fault free rather than the last genuine badges having a few faults, unless of coarse the dies recieved damage during storage in the period 1908-1970 in which case it would all become very easy.

Simon, If you post some better pictures when you recieve the badge, there might be some more clues such as the rear lugs?

Rob.

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Rob, yeah; pretty much where I'm thinking. I'm really after just the white metal Devonshire 5th and the blackened brass 4th for the WW1 collection. I think as this is earlier than the period I'm after (real or not) I think I'll return.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers

Simon.

[Petrick]

Found this one this morning at a local car boot sale. This one has lugs instead of the slider you will find on most copy's. Is this one a thumps up of thumps down ? Thanks.

[gb64]

Hi Petrick,

I would say a downIMO looking at the type of lugs on your badge

Gerard