Bronze officer’s cap badge finish

[Chacal]

Please forgive me if this is a rather basic question, but is the ‘chocolate brown’ finish on officer’s cap badges an applied coating, or a build-up of natural patina? The reason I ask is that I have a GviR RE officer’s badge minus one blade which I would like to get repaired. Would the possible loss of the finish during the repair process cancel out any benefit from replacing the missing blade? I’d welcome any information, comments etc.

Thanks

Graham

[Peter Brydon]

Graham,

I the absence of any other replies I will put in my tuppence worth. The osd finish was just that, a finish rather than a painted on colour.

There are a number of commercially available chemicals that will leave a similar finish on a repaired badge. There have been threads on this subject here in the past but having had a quick search, I am unable to find them.

I think there are also some paints in the Humbrol range that will give an appearance very similar to that of officers service dress bronze.

Most badge repairers ( including a number of members of this Forum ) have their own method of applying an osd finish after completion of the repair.

If you go to a badge repairer with a good reputation, after the repair he will finish then badge with an acceptable osd colour.

P.B.

[KLR]

In a word - yes ! Leave it as it is, you will never get exactly the same original colour.

[Chacal]

P.B. and KLR

Thank you both for your input, I think I'll leave it be as the finish is in good condition and I intend to pass the badge on to someone who will appreciate it - it can then be down to them if they wish to repair it at the cost of the original finish.

I was speaking to a police collector who repairs badges at the weekend and it seems the biggest problem I'll have is getting chrome police badges repaired, as the methods used necessitate re-chroming the badge (hardly worth it for what they cost); I guess I'm like my father's generation, I see no reason to discard something if it can be fixed.

But this has been most valuable and, again, many thanks

Graham

[Charlie585]

Hi Gents,

I have had very good results with the solution in the link below:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-BR...item1c2a13d89d

Worth a go if you really feel that you need to re-finish a bronze badge but I would advise practicing on a few brass restrikes/ scrappers first to avoid ending up with a brittle crust and it's probably best to pickle the badge first to remove any residue that might affect the finish.

Regards to all.

Ry

[Fatherofthree]

I was speaking to a police collector who repairs badges at the weekend and it seems the biggest problem...........
Graham[/QUOTE]

What does he do for the rest of the week??

Very similar to this; 2 blokes talking whilst eating breakfast:

1st bloke: " I saw a fox going to work this morning"

2nd bloke: "How do you know he was going to work?"

Regards
Brian

[41st]

On the subject of colour, am I correct in recalling that the milk chocolate colour is indicative of the earlier badges and the dark colour later for OSD bronzed badges?

Originally Posted by KLR

In a word - yes ! Leave it as it is, you will never get exactly the same original colour.

[Charlie585]

Originally Posted by 41st

On the subject of colour, am I correct in recalling that the milk chocolate colour is indicative of the earlier badges and the dark colour later for OSD bronzed badges?

I'm not sure if that theory could be applied across the board Kevin.

I have original Victorian era bronzed RB items that are a very dark shade and others that are lighter. The lightest of all being the latest dated piece which is a 1910 pattern OSD.

Also it is recorded that the Officers cap/collar star of the Hampshire regiment in the Great War period had different shades of bronzing as a Battalion distinction.

I think there are several factors that could dictate the shade of bronzing, not least ageing and also differences in batches and manufacturers methods.

Regards

Ry

[Charlie585]

Originally Posted by KLR

In a word - yes ! Leave it as it is, you will never get exactly the same original colour.

Further to the above and in answer to Julian's point. It is possible to obtain just about any shade of bronzing or blackening but it takes practice and patience. I have had some very good results but my early attempts were hit and miss and even now if I am not happy with a finish I will take it back to bare metal and start again.

Lightening of bronzing through age, wear, or weathering is I think highly dependent on whether or how the chemical coating was 'fixed' after application.

Ry

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by 41st

On the subject of colour, am I correct in recalling that the milk chocolate colour is indicative of the earlier badges and the dark colour later for OSD bronzed badges?

Kevin

Here is a Jennens&Co XRH (dark choclate) pre WW1 ........ if you look at your DHY Gaunt Officers WW1 you will see a more milk choclate brown Its the "bronzing solution" that will determine the colour.... and the legth of time its dipped/applied for I think....... reading through the bronze casting info.

All Jennens&Co :- Bronze XRH, Bronze DHY, blackened POWFs ..

[Phil2M]

Originally Posted by Fatherofthree

I was speaking to a police collector who repairs badges at the weekend and it seems the biggest problem...........
Graham

What does he do for the rest of the week??

Very similar to this; 2 blokes talking whilst eating breakfast:

1st bloke: " I saw a fox going to work this morning"

2nd bloke: "How do you know he was going to work?"

Regards
Brian[/QUOTE]

There was a chicken farm at the end of the road?

[41st]

Ry,

I thought that it might be the case with regard to manufacture and batching etc. What brought this on was that I've just picked up another RWF OSD example which is very light compared to others I have.

In this instance I know it's a Jennens badge, as although it is not marked it is out of the same die as a marked example I have and both are the pre-1920 versions. Different number of wire fixings for the grenade overlay though which is why I went for it. How sad is that?

I have what I have always considered to be an early version, from the type of blades, which is very dark. The same goes for some of my Welsh Reg't examples.

With the Welsh Reg't I know at least one service battalion wore their OSD badges cleaned back to the base metal. This was also done by one of the regular battalions when on foreign service.

Hwyl,

Kevin

[Charlie585]

Kevin,

Good to hear of your RWF badge, well done on finding it.

Batching, manufacture and wear and tear aside I think you have raised an interesting topic and one that has relevance to both regimental collectors and those who collect OSDs as an area of interest.
These snippets concerning Bn/theatre distinctions have to be of value for anyone wishing to gain a positive use or period of use for some of these badges.
On the whole though and certainly for the majority of badges worn by the corps and services it may be a case of it is what it is and nothing more to it.

In the case of my area of interest the RB, older badges are often referred to as blackened which makes sense as it goes along with 'The Black and the Green' however, upon reading the regimental histories I note the description is always given as 'Bronze/d'.

As to my bronzed 1910 pattern badge, it may well be the case that this was worn as an overseas distinction as opposed to it being solely a service dress badge, I'm not sure if I'll ever find out for sure though unless it turns up in one of the regimental chronicles. If I am honest, when I first saw it I wasn't overly impressed or convinced, it was the blade fixings and apparent age that clinched it for me and I am now happy to call it a good badge.

Ry

[KLR]

It's confusing but the Royal Army Clothing Dept use the term "bronzing / ed" to mean both black and a dark brown colour. They are of course only describing ORs badges but as an example that term is used for eg RB and other rifle units as well as Household Cavary (& yeomanry) and eg Liverpool Pals.
I still haven't found any official 1902 description of OSD badges - if anyone has come across the reference please let me know.
I agree about different tones though. I can only speak about KLR OSDs but Firmin tend to be lighter than Gaunt and Jennens but then the earlier G and J ones do seem to be lighter than the 1926 pattern OSDs.

[davec2]

Too technical for me but I can add one little snippet ?

Where Griff points out that the finished colour is due to the solution and time in it, there is also the base metal to take into consideration.

I have lost count of the number of badges I have now bronze washed after being repaired, I have several different solutions and although the length of time the badge is in the solution can determine the colour, so can the original base metal.

After repairing, the badges are cleaned and the original finish can range from gilt to gilding metal and cast bronze, this does effect the final finish ? cast bronze generally gives the best finish after a short dip but can be made to look very dark if left in the solution.

For what it's worth, these are my findings ???

Dave.