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  #16  
Old 31-10-19, 09:03 PM
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Here is my 8xAkey button. I'd say it is a match.
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File Type: jpg img873.jpg (55.1 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by btns; 31-10-19 at 09:06 PM. Reason: matching dies
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  #17  
Old 01-11-19, 08:42 AM
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Yes its a good match in my opinion too.

Does anyone else have an large (I assume they are all large?) Armfield marked button from btns "A's" list to compare to help confirm this pattern?

Rob
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  #18  
Old 01-11-19, 01:24 PM
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I have had a look through my collection and these are the ones I have found. Numbers are from Howard Ripley Buttons of the Regular Army.

3. greekkey

394. Queens own Cameron Highlands 1902-52 Officers 20mm
...... 9th Bn HLI Glasgow Highlanders Officers 19mm

4. hammerkey

541. General Service KC ORs Drop shank 17mm

5. snakekey

95. Royal Corps Signals 1921-46 ORs 25mm
274. Royal Scots ORs 26mm
347. Hampshire Regiment ORs 26mm
502. Royal Army Ordnance Corps 1919-46 ORs 25mm
520. Royal Army Veterinary Corps 1919 on ORs 25mm
541. General Service KC ORs 24mm
..... Royal Air Force KC Officers quality 24mm

6. squarekey

507. Corps Military Police GVIR ORs 25mm
541. General Service KC 24mm
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  #19  
Old 01-11-19, 02:08 PM
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Here's another pattern, but I think I have already found 3 other front match's.

Rob
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File Type: jpg dev1.jpg (45.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg dev2.jpg (43.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg dev3.jpg (43.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg dev4.jpg (48.4 KB, 14 views)
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  #20  
Old 01-11-19, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Here's another pattern, but I think I have already found 3 other front match's.

Rob
Hi Rob,
Your pattern certainly meets the conditions, e.g. a 20th century 'hidden' manufacturer's backmark. I agree with your matching.
I do not recall seeing it.
What name do you give it?
best regards,
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  #21  
Old 02-11-19, 07:21 AM
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I think I will leave the naming to you.

Has this "Made in England" back mark been linked to Smith & Wright before?

Rob
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  #22  
Old 02-11-19, 01:30 PM
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I think I have ruined my own theory, this J Samuel variant seems to be from the same die as the 4 in post 19.

Rob
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  #23  
Old 02-11-19, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
I think I have ruined my own theory, this J Samuel variant seems to be from the same die as the 4 in post 19.

Rob
J. Samuel, 19 Gerrard St., London W1 may have been military tailors.
(although I have not found details on this company)
I think your theory still stands.
What about dashedcircleskey?

this link lists them as tailors:
https://www.tommysmilitaria.com/en-G...918/prod_10462
quoting: Tailors/retailers stamp to J Samuel, Gerrard Street, London. Stamped A 1918 (British War Department supplied to officers in the field).
Update on this link: I have not been able to find J. Samuel in the 1910-1914 London Post Office directory.

Last edited by btns; 03-11-19 at 08:21 AM. Reason: found reference,
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  #24  
Old 03-11-19, 08:57 AM
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Btns, your code words are getting longer and I'm not sure I will be able to make use of them on the future with my poor memory.

I like the thought that J Samuel may be a tailor's which allows the continued theory that all 5 of these Devon buttons were made by Smith & Wright but I'm still having trouble with the Officers/Other Ranks Quality question, who exactly was purchasing and wearing these, proud other ranks or less well off junior Officers?

Rob
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  #25  
Old 03-11-19, 01:32 PM
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I have changed dashedcircleskey to dashkey.

Here is my reference list
J. Samuel, 19 Gerrard St, London W1
The King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)[1881-1930]
The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry [1901-1947]
The Royal Irish Fusiliers (Princess Victoria's) [1881-1968]
The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) [1881-1936]
Royal Tank Corps [1923-1939]

J. Samuel, 19 Gerrard St. London
The Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) [1899-1959]
he West Yorkshire Regiment (The Prince of Wales's Own) [until 1936]

J. Samuel, London
The Royal Norfolk Regiment [1937-1959]
Army Catering Corps [1941-1974] (not in collection)
Royal Armoured Corps [1942- onwards]
Royal Tank Regiment [1939- onwards]

J. Samuel, London W1
The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders [1881-1961]

J. Samuel looks mid 20th century: c.1920-c.1950
I have not yet recorded button sizes and I have given up on officer/nco/other ranks qualities.
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  #26  
Old 04-11-19, 12:03 PM
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Here are a couple from my collection to help with the Smith and Wright J Samuel theory, again I think the fronts were made in the same dies.

Rob
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File Type: jpg cam1.jpg (49.1 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg cam2.jpg (50.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg cam3.jpg (50.2 KB, 5 views)
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  #27  
Old 04-11-19, 06:16 PM
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Hi Rob,
I think it is not a match.
The central jewel in the crown of the gilt button is rectangular, while the same in the polished button is square.
The ball of the thistle on gilt button is centered, while I feel the other one is off to the left.

It does not debunk your theory, because many dies must have been produced by Smith & Wright.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-19, 06:28 PM
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I see what you are saying, but they tend to roll sideways slightly in the scanner so it distorts the image a bit, the thistles are straight in reality, and the jewels have been polished on the J Samuel so its hard to be sure, all the letters around the edge appear the same so in the hand I still think they match.

It would be nice to find some more of all these patterns to be more sure.

Rob
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  #29  
Old 07-11-19, 05:22 AM
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Having two buttons side by side in your hands is indeed much better than comparing scans.

Recording these keys in my collection is ongoing and I will update this thread when I find matches.
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  #30  
Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM
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My contribution.

The Liverpool Regiment, The Kings. KC, Off gilt, spun-back, 26mm. Unfortunately the erstwhile fixed shank has broken off.
Backmark: I had nicknamed it 'Compass Points'

GTB
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File Type: jpg liverpoolRegt_0002.jpg (55.6 KB, 5 views)
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