LOTHIANS AND BORDER HORSE - I.D. ON SOME BADGES

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi all

I picked these up the other day with the intent to sell on what I don't need. What I'd like to ask is does anyone have an idea what the leaf shaped items are and could any Yeomanry expert put some dates to the cloth and bullion ones shown in the pics.

Cheers

Simon.

[2LBH]

Hi Simon,

upper right hand corner, on blue backing is the officers bullion version, generally worn on the SD cap and/or beret according to period. The same one of its left with khaki backing is a variation but have never seen any worn on headdress, I guess it may be some WO rank worn on the sleeve. (third from right remains a mystery to me). Below is the standard OR brass cap badge.
The 3 x L&BHorse brass titles are the Lothians & Border Horse shoulder titles worn 1908-1924. (Do you want to sell a pair of them? I may be interested ).

The brass badge with large scroll and long slider looks like the one worn from 1902 for a short period only, can you confirm the scroll please? I wonder if its not the Pagri version...
Nice lot indeed!!
Cheers
phil

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Phil, thanks for the info. Yeah it is a nice little set. I took a chance and got them on Ebay from a seller in the US. Once I get them I'll post better pics and maybe you can ID that one, third from the right.
I bought the lot for the WW1 pattern cap. Looked like it would be more likely to be a real one with company it keeps.

I'll let you know if I decide to sell anything from the lot.
Cheers

Simon.

[Voltigeur]

Hello Simon,the maple leaf is the University of Alberta C.O.T.C. (Canadian Officer Training Corps)collar badge, most of these units were disbanded IIRC in the late 1960's.
Jo

[LONGSHANKS]

Thanks Jo, thought as much; Canadian with that leaf style.

Cheers

Simon.

[pressguard]

Hi Simon

Nice lot of badges, keep them together if you can.

Steve

[LONGSHANKS]

Well Gent's they arrived today, and here are some closer pics. Phil, hopefully you can I.D. them all now for me, so I can label correctly in the albums.

Thanks

Simon.

[LONGSHANKS]

It seems that badge with the scroll is either 1446 or 1447. Is one larger than the other?

Simon.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

It seems that badge with the scroll is either 1446 or 1447. Is one larger than the other?

Simon.

Simon, (don't you mean 1466 v 1467?) They are completely different - theres a KK1466(with scroll) in My Badges and I have a KK1467 somewhere (this one doesn't have a scroll and the wheatsheaf is much larger) - or are you thinking of another variant?
David

[2LBH]

Hi all,
sorry for the delay, I've just noticed the messages today. So, from left to right and top to bottom:

- Lothians and Border Horse single garb OR cap badge. Pattern which replaced the 1908 one and was worn until 1956 and the final disbandment of the L&BH as a regiment. This is the slidered version, so post WWI. WWI pattern had lugs and was used as a cap badge, collar badge and regimental badge worn by NCOs -except WOs- upon the rank chevrons and not above. (The regimental badge was lately reintroduced in 1941 onwards among 1st Lothians).

- mysterious one, really. No idea but would limit the period to 1921, not later. Not sure it was a cap badge.*(1)

- officers bullion version on blue backing, generally worn on the SD cap and/or beret according to period if cap badge, could possibly be a collar.*(2)

- The same as above but with khaki backing is a variation. Not worn on headdress after 1921. Could possibly be a collar?*(3)

- Lothians and Border Horse 1st pattern (1908) OR cap badge. The 1st type was a modified version of the Lothians & Berwickshire Imperial Yeomanry (1902-1908) cap badge: smaller garb in brass with a scroll bearing 'LOTHIANS & BORDER HORSE YEOMANRY'. The use of this OR cap badge was of brief duration as this form was soon replaced by the simple larger garb, which was also used on the collars. Cap and collar badges for officers continued to be the simple garb in gold wire.

* New regulations of 1902 obliged officers to wear badges of rank on the lower sleeve in somewhat complicated system of braiding, but the method was abandoned during the early years of war in favour of the previous one of displaying rank insignia on the shoulder straps. During this period, tunics with stepped lapels, worn with collar and ties, began to be favoured, eventually supersiding the older form; photographs of 1914 show both types being worn. Cap and collar badges for officers continued to be the simple garb in gold wire. I strongly believe that (2) & (3) could also be officers collar badges of that period and with backing colour according to the dress it was sewn on: khaki on battledress, blue on "blue patrol" tunic.

I unfortunately don't own K&K vol. 1 so am not able to give you reference but here is all I know and think about your nice collection. Anyone having explanations or info about (1) is welcome.

All the very best
Phil

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi David, I wasn't sure as the image in the albums I saw referenced both, but not the fact that one had a scroll and the other didn't.

I though he was eluding to the fact there were two slight variant of the scroll one.

I'll try again in the threads and see.

Simon.

[LONGSHANKS]

Thanks for that Phil, a very comprehensive review of the set. I'll update some of them in the albums now.

Thanks for the info

Regards
Simon.

[wright241]

Simon,
Having measured the one I have, the closest gap (both sides) between the scroll and sheaf is 2.5mm. I also have one similar to yours somewhere...... i.e.the gap is wider.
David