The Royal Canadian Regiment

[Dwayne H]

Ok..with all of the RCR knowledge that I have seen here....a question regarding the shoulder flashes...On the scan below you will see 4 flashes...the last being a different shape. I know they are were all worn during the war. I have a BD and 2 Italy brassards with the last title on them. My question is...

A) When did the shape of the flashes change?

B) Since I have summer brassards which would be summer 1944 at the latest, why didn't the last pattern of canvas flashes( circa 1945) mirror the new shape of the RCR flashes.

Dwayne

[Bill A]

To answer the last question first, I believe the screens used by the manufacturer were simply reused for the late war run of canvas. The manufacturer did not know about the change or did not want to spend the time and money on cutting new screens. (I think the former is more likely. The order went out to the manufacturer without the Canadian army telling them the pattern had changed.)
Dwayne, I also have a brassard attributed to the Italian theatre with the last version of the RCR title. The brassards would have been worn well into the fall of 1944, until the khaki drill uniforms were replaced by the winter issue battledress. Comments about the change over can be found in various regimental histories, and if I remember correctly, it was well into October or later before the change occured. I would also be interested in the date the style of title changed, and more importantly, why was the pattern was changed?

[boots and saddles]

Re the Guelpic crown, I don't know about the RCR's but the RCD's wore a button with it on & actually it is more common than the KC which they also wore at that time & which I am looking for, The one with the guelpic crown I have. Ray

[Infanteer]

Can one of the RCR collectors give me some advice on how to differentiate between a WW2 RCR cap badge and a 1950's badge? Post war badges tend to have a rather yellow colored brass which for me is an indicator but beyond looking for lugs how do I know if an Imperial crown badge is pre 1945?

[Bill A]

Hi Steve, Mike O'Leary's site the Regimental Rouge is the best RCR reference on the net. He has a very good reference section on the badges of the Royal Canadian Regiment.

[Infanteer]

Thanks, but I am very familiar with that site. Problem is that the Imperial crown badge was in use from before WW2 to the current day.... so how do I know when the badge was made? Sliders would indicate post war manufacture as far as I know but lugs were being used in the 50's still. Usually collectors have guidelines they use when determining the vintage of badges like this, like some small detail that changed post war or manufacturing variations. Anyone?

[Bill A]

In the case of the RCR, there was time overlap in the wearing of badges. It has been observed that quite a mixture of patterns were worn at the start of the Second World War.
The imperial crown pattern with the lugs and 50's sliders are virtually the same on the obverse. It appears that these badges were worn late in SWW and into the Korean era and later. I don't think there is any obvious differences, that can be attributed, to sort the badges as specifically wartime or post war. As far as post war differentiation, the use of sliders would date the badge to the mid 50's at least.
Basically, I don't think there is any clear way of saying this badge was WW2, and then this pattern was post war.

[Infanteer]

Okay, fair enough. Thanks Bill A.

[regimentalrogue]

You will also find examples of the earlier 'narrow-based crown' badges that were still being worn later and were anodized by members of the Regiment in the 1960s, which overlapped with the issue and use of the later 'wide-based crown' badges.

For a representative badge for the Second World War, I would suggest you look for a polishable brass frontpiece, narrow-based crown, and lugs. For a worn badge look for evidence of polishing, and the spaces around the "VRI" may have been rubbed smooth to make the badge shine better. Soldiers were known to use a bullet tip to wear down the pebbled texture around the letters to achieve this.

[Infanteer]

Okay, here is one that I think might we pre 1945 vintage.

[regimentalrogue]

That Imperial crown badge would match my expectations of a Second World War badge. The Guelphic crown badges in the third photo should have gone out of use in 1926/27.

[Infanteer]

Okay, thanks for the feedback guys. And Mike, your explanation of what to look for is exactly what I was hoping for.

Cheers, Steve

[Canadian Badger]

I was hoping that you guys could tell me a little about this RCR badge. What time period was this pattern of badge used? Is it an officer's badge? It is very heavy and finely made, really a beautiful badge.

[regimentalrogue]

Definitely an officers' badge with the silver "VRI". Time period for the pattern is after 1926/7 and could have been in use up to and including the post-Second World War period to as late as the 1970s - officers who had quality badges would hold on to them well past their dates of purchase/issue and resist changing to newer (sometimes lower quality) badges.

It's an early slider variant and clearly not one modified from a previously lugged version.

In my opinion it's most likely a forage cap badge of the 1930s/1940s.