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#1
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Unvoided Crowns
Reading two threads in particular recently, made me think more about the subject of restrikes, copies and fakes, in relation to voided and non-voided crowns.
There is one school of thought that states unvoided badges of any sort are ‘not right’ and others who argue that due to demand, especially during the rapid expansion of the ‘war years’, standards and monitoring were lax. I have seen die cast and die stamped / struck versions where: • the crown is voided and other parts of the badge which should be are not. • the crown is unvoided and other parts of the badge are. • all parts of the badge are voided. • all parts of the badge are unvoided. This does not take into account: • where some badges having the GVR are very poorly mounted. • where some badges are well voided but ‘unfinished’ rear faces – e.g. sharp and jagged. • flawed makers’ marks. I think it was Alan O, who commented on one thread that none of the sealed patterns have unvoided crowns, which is a good start. If there are genuine unvoided crowns, then using other tell-tale signs would help. I have had several badges in the past with unvoided crowns, some of which seemed reasonable, others have been obvious copies / restrikes. I have recently picked up a couple that appear so bad that nobody could possibly have copied them and thought they could pass as genuine...which begs the question! As I was thinking about writing this thread, I noticed at least 3 x Brass Royal Devon Yeomanry Cap Badges on eBay, where the even the main crown is unvoided. To me, these seem ‘strange’ to say the least, underlying the question of the thread. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROYAL-DEV...53.m1438.l2649 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-R...53.m1438.l2649 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-B...53.m1438.l2649 Also, there is this. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Military-....c100009.m1982 Is there a list of known unvoided crowns or a list of badges that were always voided? If people reply to this question, I could compile a list and post it for all. Looking forward to responses. Chris |
#2
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The first 3 links are all FAKE, one seller in particular well known for it.
The voided one looks OK. regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#3
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Not quite sure what the main question is here as it drifts slightly.
If it’s are there genuine badges with un-voided crowns, undoubtedly yes. I own a Suffolk Regt and Finsbury Rifles with solid crown that I have no doubts about. Are the 3 badges shown in the link genuine - no. They’re fakes from a very poor Royal 1st Devon Yeomanry fake die, nothing like the original (thankfully). In this thread badges shown in the literature to the above Yeomanry https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...Devon+Yeomanry (Gaylor, K&K and Litchfield) all show examples where one of the lions hind legs touches the crown tip i.e. there is no void. It’s general consensus that looped/bladed badges of this design but with the aforementioned void are staff officer badges. As for the badge in the fourth link see post #13 of the above thread. There are a couple badges from the same die, both have modern looking sliders - not what I’d expect from a Yeomanry that didn’t survive past 1920. Personally I don’t think it’s a genuine 1stRDY (due to the void) and not a badge I’d have in my collection. Unfortunately I don’t know of any lists of relating to crowns and their voids. One thing I would say is for me it’s a subject where ‘never say never’ since one off mistakes could always have slipped through. For example I’ve a Conn. Rangers missing a single string void, it’s undoubtedly been worn and made it through quality control and been issued. Last edited by Luke H; 23-02-19 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Spelling |
#4
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Chris,
The alleged Royal Devon Yeomanry badges in the links are of the type worn in the TV 'reality' show Lads Army / Bad Lads Army screened in the early 2000s. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0417301/ Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest." |
#5
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Is this thread about crowns in general or just the Royal 1st Devon Yeomanry?
Generally speaking there could be makers variations, WW 1 economy badges, officers fretted or not etc., etc.. Rgds, Thomas |
#6
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Thanks for the comments.
It was about crowns in general. I coincidentally happened to see those links at the the same time and thought they looked odd. However the link that Luke attached shows the actual design is correct. As Tim pointed out they were also used as 'props'. This appears to be a minefield. I may just climb back into my box. Chris Last edited by CAM; 24-02-19 at 09:25 PM. Reason: typo |
#7
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This documentation at TNA dated 1901 might help !
Last edited by Alan O; 25-02-19 at 06:33 PM. |
#8
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Thank you I shall read through.
Chris |
#9
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Hi Julian,
Is there a typed transcript of the above? I find it a bugger to read plus there’s a lot of it. Cheers, Luke |
#10
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Luke, help yourself !
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