Etobicoke Show - Lightly Attended/Slow Sales

[chaudiere1944]

Hi All,

This show was the least attended Etobicoke show I can remember in the past 5-6 years…but I really enjoyed myself because I was able to have some great conversations yesterday. Sadly I forgot to wear my BCMBF badge and was not able to connect with any of you.

I did my usual first sweep of all the easily navigated aisles/tables to make a mental note of what I may be interested in. I identified a couple small pieces (Helmet display stand/Book) to go back and perhaps pick up...unfortunately due to a number of great long conversations when I returned those pieces were gone.

Overall the Etobicoke Show appeared not too good for the Sellers, in fact having talked with a number of them they were experiencing a dramatic drop in the prices they were being offered for their items. Each chalked it up to a softening overall in the field of Militaria collecting as a result of fears in the general economy. One dealer even lamented about selling a rare Militia badge yesterday for 1/3 the price it was going for in the recent past. On the flip side I chatted with a number of collectors who have made significant purchases recently at auctions and in personal transactions. The items they purchased were on the scarce/rare side but nonetheless still commanded large sums.

I am always remiss to make judgements based upon a few conversations and as such I would be interested to hear what others are noticing…a few questions come to mind: Are we witnessing a recession, no recession or a natural correction in prices? Are all items from the common to rare affected? Are there any significant demographic shifts happening? Are more items being acquired in private transactions/auctions versus the shows?

Mike

[barriefield-brian]

I have noticed on e-bay a lot of common badges dont get a bid or sell very low while the rarer badges still seem to make a good buck. Cheers Brian

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Brian,

Thank you for the observation and opinion...it supports what many of the collectors I have spoken with are saying...namely they are still prepared to spend on the scarce/rare items particularly when they are in an auction environment like e-bay/Spinks/DNW/Hoare.

Mike

[RC Sigs]

The usual 50 to 75 people lined up at the door were just not there at this show. Overall low attendance and yes people were looking for bargains !

[marway_Jaime]

Hi Mike, we had a good show, but noticed a few of our "regulars" did not show, and I noticed at least 4 dealers who usually show weren't as well. I believe you picked up Davids Badge Cd from me near the end.
I had my pin but forgot to wear it!

Please excuse the digression (not to mention ignorance) but I see this Etobicoke place name come up every so often and am dying to know exactly how it is pronounced.

Peter.

[Pylon1357]

As I posted before. As a buyer, I loved it. Not because of the lower prices, or the greater ability to hagger, but I simple just didn't have to fight to get through the crowds. Not once did I get knocked about some chowderhead with an oversized backback and ego to match.

I was able to examine many more items, that I would normally not bother due to overcrowding.

Although I think I am freindly and pleasent enough, I really don't care for crowds. Never have and likely never will. I still get chills when I think of me trying to navigate the show a year ago last spring. I was on crutches and seemed to be a dilibrate target for everyone.

I found the prices on higher ended items seemed pretty much unchanged, however middle road and lower ended stuff seemed less pricey (a trend I do like).

I have notticed as well lately that there seems to be more of the "rare' items coming up on the market. What I mean are iems such as 1canpar badges (legit, no the fakes) also a few 8th Recce officers scrolls about as well.

Overall I really enjoyed this show, although I only picked up a couple little items.

[slick_mick]

I think the a few of the Australian militaria shows have also been the same way with dealers complaining about very slow sales.

Mick

[Phil2M]

From Wikipedia,

"Etobicoke (with a silent 'ke') is a district and a former municipality within the current city of Toronto, Ontario, Canada."

Originally Posted by Phil2M

From Wikipedia,

"Etobicoke (with a silent 'ke') is a district and a former municipality within the current city of Toronto, Ontario, Canada."

Tha yo Phi



...and apologies for the digression.

[chaudiere1944]

Hi All,

Many thanks for all your opinions and experiences recently...I find it fascinating how the hobby evolves and in particular what the drivers of those changes are.

Also....many thanks for the laugh/digression about how to pronounce Etobicoke.

Jaime...yep that was me who picked up the CD of David's Badge work. I am very impressed with the contents and recommend it as a great reference piece for Badges current prices/scarcity/rarity. Sorry I did not get a chance to have a better chat but it was virtually at the close when I dropped by your table...next show I promise to more formally/properly introduce myself. P.S. Glad you had a good show...you may have been one of the few who did from my observations/conversations.

Mike

[RCN]

Originally Posted by chaudiere1944

I did my usual first sweep of all the easily navigated aisles/tables to make a mental note of what I may be interested in. I identified a couple small pieces (Helmet display stand/Book) to go back and perhaps pick up...unfortunately due to a number of great long conversations when I returned those pieces were gone.

Overall the Etobicoke Show appeared not too good for the Sellers, in fact having talked with a number of them they were experiencing a dramatic drop in the prices they were being offered for their items. Each chalked it up to a softening overall in the field of Militaria collecting as a result of fears in the general economy. One dealer even lamented about selling a rare Militia badge
I am always remiss to make judgements based upon a few conversations and as such I would be interested to hear what others are noticing…a few questions come to mind: Are we witnessing a recession, no recession or a natural correction in prices? Are all items from the common to rare affected? Are there any significant demographic shifts happening? Are more items being acquired in private transactions/auctions versus the shows?

Mike

Etobicoke & Markham are the best shows in the Southern ON area by far,
if you are serious about collecting you attend these shows. Ottawa in the spring & fall is also a good well attended show.

& I'm probably going toget into trouble giving my opinions, but I'll say it anyway ------

There are always bargains to be had at shows - they are there - its just a matter of looking.
Vendors ALWAYS bitch & complain about prices - its the nature of the 'beast' - just like Canadians are always bitching about the weather - thats why some go south in winter!

The problem is that some vendors have titems so ridiculously overpriced (or perhaps a better word might be unrealistically priced) then the
item(s) dont sell, either for that reason &/or some fellows are reluctant to haggle or make offers.
Any specialist collector knows his/her area & knows what the items they have interest in should be selling for.

I have had a table at various shows for 30 + yrs, I see them all, most collectors will pay what you have onan item IF ITS REASONABLY priced to the buyer!
(of course saying that, whats reasonable to collector X might not be to collector Y)

Most of my sales (approx 60%) are for what I have on the item, about 40% of my sales are on offers.
I have no problem at all with a collector making an offer - I do it all the time -its expected at shows - I know what I want to pay for something I want - if its reasonable, I'm in - if its close to what I want to pay then I make an offer - BUT if the item is ridiculously overpriced I dont even bother to make an offer. I'm not going to stand there & argue with a vendor about a price!
I have neither the desire, the time, nor the patience for that.
You CANNOT change fully formed attiutudes!!!

So some vendors then have no cause really for complaint - you price an item reasonably or to sell & it will sell. I dont have a lot of sympathy for vendors who deliberately overprice & dont wish to deal, & there are a few of them (couple well known, one missing Sat) at these shows.

RCN Bryan

[QSAMIKE]

Good Morning Gentlemen.....

Maybe it is also the way that the economy is going..... We had a show here in Calgary this last weekend and it was one of the best one day shows that I have ever attended..... All the dealers around me and myself of course had a fantastic day..... I am afraid that I did not find anything that would enhance my collection but I did get a very nice 1863 rifle.....

Mike

[Bill A]

Not so sure that the observations can all be attributed to this economy. The demographics of collecting may have more to do with the situation than economic forces. How many younger/new collectors were there at the shows? One can only sell so many medical corps or service corps badges (or the equivalent in Nazi material eg some of the tinnies or more common breast badges), before an individual has what is needed for their collection. They then move into the next tier or maybe their interest drops off... or the prices asked end their collecting. And Canadian badge collecting is by far defined by the First and Second World Wars. Most collectors do up some sort of order of battle for those conflicts or a lineage for their particular regiments.This certainly helps explain the firm demand for more rare material. Advanced collectors after fewer items...results in a strong market for the scarce material.
I am not sure how the supply and demand curve works for some badges. Eg there are many VIII Recce badges around, yet their prices have sky-rocketed beyond similarly scarce badges. Market manipulation? Yet a Garrison Bn badge has not had a bite when listed at about $3000.
A bit of perspective. Minimum wage is about $11 in Ontario. To buy a scarcer cap badge, say a $40 one, the individual has to work over four hours. To drop $200 on a scarce badge is a significant outlay. Obviously many collectors make a lot more than minimum wage, but the cost of militaria in time worked is the equation. To make collecting a long term enterprise, the badges have to remain within reach of newer collectors. Perhaps the frenzy of bidding on CEF badges last fall was the peak for this particular cycle.

[shootemup]

How does one acquire this forum badge? I'd love to meet up with forum members at shows, etc.