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#16
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Andy
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Leave to carry on Sir please. |
#17
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#18
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The badge was corroded when I found it so I cleaned the corrosion off to conserve the badge. If it is a fake it would have to be late 19th century at least given the corrosion level.
I traced the badge back to a Noble Numismatics auction where the person I bought it from had purchased it. Noble had it as an original George III badge but I'm not that familiar with them so I'm not sure if that carries any weight. The badge as displayed by Noble is below. noble.jpg |
#19
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Also is there a museum or other expert who I might get in touch with who may be able to provide definitive evidence one way or the other? Thanks, Mike. |
#20
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1. Bottom left of array https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/a...6-a444003e5aec 2. Top centre of array, Lot 1234. https://www.ewbankauctions.co.uk/201...t_detail&year= NB. The cartouche pouch badges evolved quite seamlessly to become Valise badges from the reign of George IV onwards. They were simply transferred from one black leather container to another. The Grenadier’s pattern then evolved to a more oval shape in order to encompass a cypher comprising more letters. There is a Guards museum at Birdcage Walk in London, but they don’t employ antiquarians which is what you really require. An auction house specialising in military items is the best place to seek advice. There are several in London that you could find via a search engine. Last edited by Toby Purcell; 03-01-20 at 02:11 PM. |
#21
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Andy
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Leave to carry on Sir please. |
#22
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Thanks for posting that Toby, I have contacted the Guards museum for an opinion and am looking for some experts to ask.
The 1st picture you posted is fairly clear and I'm struggling to see any difference to mine. The top of my badge is not quite as defined on the top of the crown but it has the same un-symmetrical point below the garter. It's a pity I can't see the back. I had a thought on your opinion it should be more polished than it is. With no holes in the back tags is it not likely, as someone else mentioned, to have never been mounted on a pouch? If it was made around 1815 it would have been surplus once the badge changed to the oval shape. It may have been lost or someone 'borrowed' it. I have to agree the second badge looks a little too nice, it also has a line above the bottom point which is not in existence in the 1st photo or on my badge. edit: Bosleys description of the badge "A scarce cast brass excavated example. Within a crowned Garter, a GR Cypher, reversed and interlaced and bearing III to the centre. Three flat integral loops to reverse, GC" Last edited by aussiemike79; 03-01-20 at 10:58 PM. |
#23
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#24
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As Toby alludes copies these days by various techniques, including lost wax can be exceedingly good and very faithful in the detail reproduced. If it’s a reproduction by this method from an original the only difference may be a slight size and weight variation. Obviously you would need an original for comparison purposes which I realise is currently the snag.
Equally when we think Fox restrikes of pre-territorial glengarry badges have been around since the early 1900s no doubt reproductions/copies of earlier Georgian badges pre-date this. Waterloo period items I suspect would be popular and likely place for repros to start for obvious reasons. The man who may have had some notes on this, Jeff McWillian, especially around sizes and weights very sadly passed away recently. Another forum member Neibelungen has worked restoring older items around this period. Hopefully he sees this thread and may have some experience handling originals or helpful information. |
#25
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It's the issue with rare badges I guess, trying to authenticate them. It's not only a lack of originals but I haven't been able to find any known reproductions to compare against either.
I have contacted 4 of the main militaria auction houses in the UK to see what they think. It may end up being inconclusive. The dimensions, for anyone interested, are 11cm x 6.5cm x 106 grams, please excuse the metric. |
#26
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1st-Regim...YAAOSwP59eDYJZ Which of the '4 main militaria auction houses' confirmed that? regards
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges Last edited by manchesters; 09-01-20 at 06:21 PM. |
#27
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Andy
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Leave to carry on Sir please. |
#28
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#29
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Well I am sure it will sell then.
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#30
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I only started this thread to ask for dates of usage of the badge.Then I listed the badge on ebay and it became a FAKE, with no further evidence required.
I can't find any reproductions of this badge or even any mention of them. If you have knowledge of such then please share it with us. |
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