Brass "C"s ( for Officers of Cadet Units ? )

[Peter Brydon]

I have just won on our favourite online auction site a pair of brass "C"`s with two lugs to the rear of each of them.

Whilst I have a number of cadet unit shoulder titles incorporating the letter "C" ( eg 1/C/Kings and C/6/Liverpool ) I have never seen any pictures of officers of cadet units wearing a "C" below their collar badges in the same way that you see Territorial officers wearing a "T" below their collar badges ( or Volunteer officers wearing a "V").

Does anyone know if the wearing by officers of a "C" was officially authorised or if anyone has any photos of officers wearing a "C" below their collar badges.

Thanks in advance.

P.B.

[conijoni]

Officers and lads in the CLB wore a brass "C" when they were recognised as Cadets under the the Government's Cadet Scheme. The CLB accepted recognition from 1911 and allowed their companies to wear khaki service dress from 1913. In 1917, until 1930, the CLB were affiliated to the KRRC and began wearing a blackened brass "C". Johnny Conn

[Peter Brydon]

Many thanks conijoni,

I presume that the officers wore the "C" on the collar but did the cadets do so as well ?

You dont have any photos of the "C" being worn do you ?

Thanks again.

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

These are the "C"s and whilst noting Conjonis reply, I am still not sure if they were worn on the collar or if they are part of shoulder titles.

Any further information/thoughts much appreciated.

P.B.

[badjez]

Peter,

Identical style in brass also worn by the City of London Police prior to the ntroduction of anodisied numbers. The CoLP are the only UK force not to wear whiet metal/ chrome/ or silver plate insignia, having always worn brass. They are also the only Force in the UK not to wear the Queen's Crown on their helmet plate (it is worn on badges for peaked caps).
'C' was used to designate officers belonging to 'C' Division at Bishopsgate, EC2.
Two sizes could be found, used by the different sexes.

Stephen.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Stephen,

You tend to forget ( or perhaps hope that is is not the case ) that items like these may not be military at all.

Peter

[johnG]

Hi Stephen,
I am interested in your reference to the CoL Police and attach a photo of an uncle of mine at the end of his service as Station Sergeant at Bishopsgate Police Station in 1947. I assume the blackened City of London badge on his helmet was a wartime thing, and I always took that to be a Kings Crown above the arms of the City of London, and that has me wondering. Is it not a crown at all, or does your post mean they did not adopt the Queens Crown when it came into use.

Incidently, to that medal bar he added an MBE (Military) and a 1953 Coronation Medal for having started as a regular in the Royal Engineers prior to WW1 (He was one of the Old Contemptibles), after over twenty years service in the City of London Police he became Orderly Room Quarter Master Sergeant on full time service with the Infantry Battalion of the HAC.

John

[badjez]

Peter, Please excuse me hijacking your thread for a moment!

John,

A very good photo of your father. To clarify, niether the KC or QC have been worn on the standard helmet plate by the City of London Police. The KC was on a prortype helmet plate made during WW2 but never issued (examples used to reside under lock & key in the clothing stores well into the 1980's).
City Constables and Sgts wear their 'collar number' on their helmet plate.
The KC & QC have only been worn on peaked caps.

I've attached two helmet plate photos. I cannot attribute a source to the phots as they came from a Google search. The one with brass numerals is similar to that worn by your father.

Stephen.

[johnG]

Thanks Stephen, I see now from your photo's what I took to be a crown. Much obliged.
Regards,
John

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Many thanks conijoni,

I presume that the officers wore the "C" on the collar but did the cadets do so as well ?

You dont have any photos of the "C" being worn do you ?

Thanks again.

P.B.

'C's worm by Cadet Officers on the collar are no bigger than the 'T's worn by Territorial Officers, but all the examples I've seen are bronzed, when worn with SD.

No 'C's were worn by Cadets on the collar and the 'C's worn on S/T's were again of a similar size to the 'T's worn with Territorial titles, but with one lug or blade or none depending on the position within the title. In some cases Cadet titles on SD, were actually woven into the shoulder strap or in cloth worn on the upper arm.

I also am in agreement that your 'C's - double lugged - are worn by Police units.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Graham,

Do you have any photos you could post of officers wearing the "C"`s ?

P.

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Thanks Graham,

Do you have any photos you could post of officers wearing the "C"`s ?

P.

PB,

Try a Google on PC 49 images

Tim

[Nozzer]

Another "C" for you to consider....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MANCHESTER...item5654f5468e

I was told a slightly different story about the City of London Police star and crown helmet badge. A friend of mine is a COLP collector and the story he has, is that the badge was worn for one day only and that was for the funeral of King George VI and that the Home Office wanted the Police to all look alike. The badge was then handed back in.

This is only what he was told of course so it could be wrong, but he does have a fine example of this rare badge.

[conijoni]

Have been looking through my photographs and cannot find any of sufficiently good quality to post. Officers wore the "C" on the lapels of their Service Dress. Lads wore them on their shoulder straps, a blackened "C" above KRR when in khaki (the CLB was affiliated to the KRRC in 1917) and a brass "C" on the shoulder strap above the letters CLB if wearing the new blue serge uniform introduced in 1923. Johnny Conn.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Tim, Andy and Conijoni,

P.