Cavalry Field Cap Badges 1895

[theironduke1]

Is there any book, article or record of the badges worn by cavalry regiments on their folding field caps prior to 1896? Looking at photographs, it appears that many of the badges (though mostly indistinct) are different than those shown in the 1900 regulations and there is no mention of them in Kipling & King.

[Alan O]

I don't know of a publication but quite a lot of cav regts kept their badge less pill box hats in preference to other headdress. It was often just the officers and bandsmen who wore badges on caps.

[theironduke1]

Thanks Alan. That's very true ... The R.Scots Greys bandsmen wore the grenade. But looking at photographs of officers, especially hussars, wearing the Austrian pattern folding field cap, indistinct badges seem to be there nut not like the ones i the 1900 regulations. I know all these badges were unofficial but nobody seems to have recorded them. Typical!

[Robthereiver]

Originally Posted by theironduke1

Thanks Alan. That's very true ... The R.Scots Greys bandsmen wore the grenade. But looking at photographs of officers, especially hussars, wearing the Austrian pattern folding field cap, indistinct badges seem to be there nut not like the ones i the 1900 regulations. I know all these badges were unofficial but nobody seems to have recorded them. Typical!

Hello

There is limited information available on this subject, and most of it seems to be fragmented. The main point is they were recorded and they were official issue, but the photographic confirmation of wear is difficult to locate, if its there at all.

To start at the beginning.

The Field Service Cap was introduced to the Cavalry in 1889, sealed 16th Jan 1889.Pat No. 1813 ref:PRO.WO359/5 page 92.

Also in that year both letters and numerals (pat.1940 probably in c.May) were sealed for wear on these caps.

The numeral(s) were positioned above the Letter(s) centrally, apparently 2.5in. from the front, and 1in. from the bottom on the left hand side ref: WO/359/5 page 80.

The numerals produced were 0 to 9, and the letters were LG,RHG,DG,D,H & L.
Therefore, The First Life Guards would be 1 over LG, the 2nd Dragoon Guards would be 2 over DG, Third Hussars 3 over H etc.

Initially these were made of brass, but the patterns were amended in 1897, and thereafter, they were made of Gilding Metal.

I cannot be entirely sure whether Officers worn the same, as it is not clear in the War Officer Records, but I'd suggest its likely, on introduction at least.

The FSC was renamed ref. PRO. WO359/8 page 84. 'Cap Field Service to be know in future as Cap Field' ACD/2. Somerset LI/487 28th May 1895.

These Letters and Numerals later had a duel role, ref WO/359/6 pages 95-96, 22nd May 1894, were it states Metal titles to replace embroidered shoulder straps on Khaki Drill Frocks, and goes on to say the numerals for the cavalry the same as for caps I1940.

As far as I can ascertain the letters and numerals were worn on Field caps until the introduction of regimental cap & collar badges which for most was 1898, and their use on shoulder straps continued until 1907 on the introduction of the 'one line title' 1DG, 2DG etc.. I suspect some regiments chose to use either a cap and/or collar badges on their FC's, this may have been rank dependant.

There are exceptions and complications relating to certain regiments to many to go into here, eg. the 11th Hussars for example apparently did not wear a badge of any kind on their FC's early days. As has been mentioned both the Pill box forage cap and the Field cap can be seen in wear by individuals in photographs of the period.

However, what I hope I have done is given a basic overview, and I hope its of help.

Cheers
Rob

[mac mcconnell]

Well that's an informative reply full of info. Always great to get some new knowledge and thanks again for taking so much time Rob.
I am having a similar problem with picture's and information on early Lancer shoulder titles but I shall start a new thread on that and keep this for field service caps.

Mac

[GriffMJ]

This image is dated 1898..... a 1st RD Officer wearing a Torin. Its hard to see the badge..... but its more than probably a bullion wire Royal Crest. I think the Other ranks wore the Dragoon yellow/blue with QVC cap badge..... I am not sure when they started to wear that (I have an image).



I know that some Yeomanry Regiments were wearing the Torin...... certainly the Leicestershire Yeomanry Cavalry Officers had the Torin prior to 1900.

[Robthereiver]

Hi

I think a little clarification would be helpful here.

A new pattern came into use with Cavalry Officers, similar to one authorised for the Foot Guards before the Crimea war, a folding cap with side-flaps which were often of a contrasting colour. It was introduced for staff officers in 1877, and by 1883 it had become known as the 'Torin' or 'Austrian Cap'.

It became somewhat of an anachronism as many Officers continued to wear it long after it had been replaced officially by succeeding patterns. I believe that Officers of the 'Royals' were still wearing 'Torins' right up until amalgamation 1969 and they continued in the Blues & Royals for a short time.

I would suggest its likely, indeed probable that many officers from many Regiments would still be wearing their 'Torins' after the introduction of the FSC. However, there also would be those who did not, and wore an Officer pattern FSC which apparently existed.

To complex matters further Officers of certain Regt's wore Tent Hats (8H & 10H) during this period, they too have stood the test of time and are still currently worn by Officers of the QRH.

Also apparently, there was a New pattern Cap for Troops in India, approved in June 1894, described by the ACD as 'Forage Indian Pattern' and approved for general used A/O 111 June 1896, for both Officers & Other Ranks. I am uncertain if cavalry regiments had this pattern but I suspect many that served in India did, but I have no idea what the differences were between it and a FSC were?.

I hope that sheds further light on this interesting subject.

Cheers
Rob

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Robthereiver

Hello

There is limited information available on this subject, and most of it seems to be fragmented. The main point is they were recorded and they were official issue, but the photographic confirmation of wear is difficult to locate, if its there at all.

To start at the beginning.

The Field Service Cap was introduced to the Cavalry in 1889, sealed 16th Jan 1889.Pat No. 1813 ref:PRO.WO359/5 page 92.

Also in that year both letters and numerals (pat.1940 probably in c.May) were sealed for wear on these caps.

The numeral(s) were positioned above the Letter(s) centrally, apparently 2.5in. from the front, and 1in. from the bottom on the left hand side ref: WO/359/5 page 80.

The numerals produced were 0 to 9, and the letters were LG,RHG,DG,D,H & L.
Therefore, The First Life Guards would be 1 over LG, the 2nd Dragoon Guards would be 2 over DG, Third Hussars 3 over H etc.

Initially these were made of brass, but the patterns were amended in 1897, and thereafter, they were made of Gilding Metal.

I cannot be entirely sure whether Officers worn the same, as it is not clear in the War Officer Records, but I'd suggest its likely, on introduction at least.

The FSC was renamed ref. PRO. WO359/8 page 84. 'Cap Field Service to be know in future as Cap Field' ACD/2. Somerset LI/487 28th May 1895.

These Letters and Numerals later had a duel role, ref WO/359/6 pages 95-96, 22nd May 1894, were it states Metal titles to replace embroidered shoulder straps on Khaki Drill Frocks, and goes on to say the numerals for the cavalry the same as for caps I1940.

As far as I can ascertain the letters and numerals were worn on Field caps until the introduction of regimental cap & collar badges which for most was 1898, and their use on shoulder straps continued until 1907 on the introduction of the 'one line title' 1DG, 2DG etc.. I suspect some regiments chose to use either a cap and/or collar badges on their FC's, this may have been rank dependant.

There are exceptions and complications relating to certain regiments to many to go into here, eg. the 11th Hussars for example apparently did not wear a badge of any kind on their FC's early days. As has been mentioned both the Pill box forage cap and the Field cap can be seen in wear by individuals in photographs of the period.

However, what I hope I have done is given a basic overview, and I hope its of help.

Cheers
Rob

That's fantastic info Rob and thank you. Can I please have your permission to quote you in the Victorian Wars Forum, where I post as Frogsmile?

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Robthereiver

Hi

I think a little clarification would be helpful here.

Shortly before the Crimea war a new pattern folding cap came into use with Cavalry Officers of the time. It was introduced for staff officers in 1877, and by 1883 it had become known as the 'Torin' or 'Austrian Cap'.

It became somewhat of an anachronism as many Officers continued to wear it long after it had been replaced officially by succeeding patterns. I believe that Officers of the 'Royals' were still wearing 'Torins' right up until amalgamation 1969 and they continued in the Blues & Royals for a short time.

I would suggest its likely, indeed probable that many officers from many Regiments would still be wearing their 'Torins' after the introduction of the FSC. However, there also would be those who did not, and wore an Officer pattern FSC which apparently existed.

To complex matters further Officers of certain Regt's wore Tent Hats (8H & 10H) during this period, they too have stood the test of time and are still currently worn by Officers of the QRH.

Also apparently, there was a New pattern Cap for Troops in India, approved in June 1894, described by the ACD as 'Forage Indian Pattern' and approved for general used A/O 111 June 1896, for both Officers & Other Ranks. I am uncertain if cavalry regiments had this pattern but I suspect many that served in India did, but I have no idea what the differences were between it and a FSC were?.

I hope that sheds further light on this interesting subject.

Cheers
Rob

Rob, there is some circumstantial evidence that the 1896 Indian Pattern was in drab (khaki) serge and drill for wear in Winter and Summer respectively. Lord Roberts was a keen wearer of it and is seen in various images during the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, sporting it in the field, as intended.

[KLR]

Thank you Toby, I've always wanted to know what the 'Indian Pattern' FSC was - I have looked up the references in AO and in the ACD ledgers but was none the wiser !
so - similar to the ones in the 1930s ?

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by KLR

Thank you Toby, I've always wanted to know what the 'Indian Pattern' FSC was - I have looked up the references in AO and in the ACD ledgers but was none the wiser !
so - similar to the ones in the 1930s ?

Yes, and it was also formally adopted in 1912, as the head dress for the then forming Royal Flying Corps (RFC). The pattern was exactly the same as the Indian.

[GriffMJ]

Yeomanry Regiments also wore the Tent Cap..... The Cheshire and the Berkshire (The Berks' might be an odd Torin) being a couple of note. The Cheshire wore their Tent Cap into modern times.... see attached.

* The "Torins" & "FFS Caps" of the Yeomanry Regiments can be seen in the MHS special number 2006 "The Mess Dress of the Yeomanry Cavalry 1880-1914" by Dave Knight & (the late) Bob Smith. Please note that on Plate 14, in that publication, that "1b" is described as North Devon....... this is wrong..... it should say Denbighshire Hussars.

[GriffMJ]

Here is the Derbyshire Yeomanry with the pre 1900 Torin and the later FFS Cap (photo 1901).

[Alan O]

http://www.uniformology.com/HUSSARS-05.html

A very good read on the caps themselves.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Alan O

http://www.uniformology.com/HUSSARS-05.html

A very good read on the caps themselves.

Yes and all courtesy of forum member, theironduke, above. His website is marked by impeccable research and is quickly becoming the go-to place for information that is often not readily available outside of relatively obscure books and historical bulletins normally visible to only a few.