Army Cadets

[Drummajor]

By the look of this photo, the Army Cadets were a popular force in 1951.

Phil.

[Hussar100]

And stayed popular right through to the 70's when I was a cadet. Part of the militarised society legacy of WW2 in my belief.

[Lancer 17]

Hi Phil

Good one. I remember coming home from work in Melbourne on the train and also the trams in the 60's and 70's and there were cadets in uniform with their 303's but without the bolt to the rifle. That wouldnt happen now in these (un)enlightened times.

Cheers

Phil.

[Mike_2817]

I visited my local ACF Detachment last week on RBL business and noticed the cadets using blue painted cut-out SA80's for recruit drill training!

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

I visited my local ACF Detachment last week on RBL business and noticed the cadets using blue painted cut-out SA80's for recruit drill training!

I think that's a great idea. It saves all the time of getting the "Cadet version" of the weapon signed out from the armoury and makes the DP version useless to thieves.

When I was a cadet we used DP versions of .303's and Brens and they were kept chained up in the cadet accommodations but some of these were broken into and the weapons stolen so they were then put into the nearest armoury. In our case that was convenient but for many detachments it wasn't.

[Mike_2817]

Just so Glyn, Otherwise they need to book and draw the DP L103A1 from the Army Foundation Collage a few miles away and return them to the guardroom afterwards.

I asked and they do use the DP L103A1 for Weapons Training, the cut-outs are only really for recruit training or personal practice.

Cadet L98A2's (now single shot, self loading) are used for Field Training and are fitted with the Blank Firing Attachment (BFA) and issued with yellow painted blank-only magazine (blanks are shorter than live rounds and the magazines have a feeder for this)

On range days, standard magazines are used.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

Just so Glyn, Otherwise they need to book and draw the DP L103A1 from the Army Foundation Collage a few miles away and return them to the guardroom afterwards.

I asked and they do use the DP L103A1 for Weapons Training, the cut-outs are only really for recruit training or personal practice.

L98A2's are used for Field Training and are fitted with the Blank Firing Attachment (BFA) and issued with yellow painted blank-only magazine (blanks are shorter than live rounds and the magazines have a feeder for this)

On range days standard magazines are used.

It was my impression that the L98A2 was sub calibre. Is that not the case? I do know a sub calibre version or kit exists because I've fired the L82A1 in that mode.

[REME245]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

It was my impression that the L98A2 was sub calibre. Is that not the case? I do know a sub calibre version or kit exists because I've fired the L82A1 in that mode.

There is a .22 sub calibre training device that can be fitted into the L98A2.
The No.8 .22 Rifle (Lee Enfield) is still available if you have a suitable range.

The main reason why cut out rifles may be being used is because certainly in my county we only get three drill rifles per detachment which is totally useless for training. Our detachments either have secure Armouries or Gun Safe's which weigh a ton. No problem with security for DP's.

CCF's have their own live weapons in quantity

[Mike_2817]

A conversion kit existed which enabled the L85A1, L86A1 and L98A1 to fire .22 LR rimfire cartridges instead of the standard 5.56 mm NATO cartridge. This was designated the L41A1. This allowed the weapon to fire live rounds on .22 ranges when full size military ranges are unavailable. The kit consisted of modified working parts (springs etc.), a special magazine that is the same size and shape as the standard 5.56 mm magazine and a breech insert, shaped like a 5.56 mm cartridge, which was fitted into the weapons breech. This adapter contained a smaller breech into which the modified bolt inserts the .22 cartridge. The modified magazine locked into the magazine housing exactly like a normal one would. It allowed .22 rounds to be fired semi-automatically using direct blow back against the bolt to cycle the next round. If the kit was fitted to the L98A1 a standard L85 cocking handle had to be fitted to allow semi automatic fire. The conversion was not permanent and could be removed from the weapon in the time it took to normally strip and reassemble the weapon. This kit was not compatible with the A2 upgrade and was removed from service, however a quantity have been modified to work in A2 weapons and have been approved for use in the L98A2, this kit has been designated as the L41A2

The L98A2 Cadet GP Rifle was introduced in 2009, as a replacement for the L98A1 Cadet GP Rifle. Unlike the L98A1 the A2 has the same cocking handle and operation as the Fully Automatic L85A2. It can be distinguished from the L85A2 by the absence of a selector switch meaning it is locked on semi-automatic (single shot) fire. The L98A2 can be fitted with the Safe Blank Firing System (SBFS) incorporating a Blank Firing Attachment (BFA) and a blank-only magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80

[Hussar100]

If I remember correctly it was Heckler Koch who provided the sub calibre kit for the SLR L1A1. As they now own Enfield and were responsible for the reworking of the SA80 to the A2 version I think it would be fair to assume they're also responsible for the sub calibre kit on the weapon - or am I wrong?

[Mike_2817]

Yes it was Heckler Koch who reworked the 5.56mm Sub-Calibre Kit for the SA80 Series.


P.S. Sorry for going on about modern British Army Cadets in this the Australian Military Insignia section.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

Yes it was Heckler Koch who reworked the 5.56mm Sub-Calibre Kit for the SA80 Series.


P.S. Sorry for going on about modern British Army Cadets in this the Australian Military Insignia section.

It's nice to get something right for a change.

[Mike_2817]

I have just come off the phone to speaking to one of the Permanent Staff at the Army Foundation Collage Harrogate (AFC(H)), and he tells me that they are used in the block by Recruits at ATC Pirbright (his last posting) as well as at the AFC(H) but does not know if they are locally produced or have a NSN to demand them on?

[Hussar100]

Interesting. Makes perfect sense too.

[Mike_2817]

Now then, way back in 1970 at the RAOC Training Depot at Deepcut we were issued a fully working SLR, Magazine & Bayonet on the Monday morning during basic training (from week 2) and handed it in on Friday Afternoon.

On Monday to Thursday nights they were keep in out Metal Lockers with Working Parts in the metal drawer with second padlock.

This was not to practice rifle drill in the block 'per se' but to save time during the week having to draw them and hand them in. The practice stopped in 1971 when the depot moved into the then new Blackdown Barracks with plywood lockers! and no the recruits did not make there own cut-outs LoL

Going back even further, I used to belong to the Princetown Detachment Devonshire ACF (for those who do not know, Dartmoor Prison is also in Princetown, in the middle of the moor) and we had 16x .303" No4 Mk1 with dummy bolts, the real bolts were held in a safe at the prison! Plus 4x Rifle .22" No8 Mk1 for local shooting. All our AI's were in fact Prison Officers, and almost all the cadets 'sons of' We also had a DP BREN Gun but no DP Rifles...