blackened cap badges for N.Ireland

[NEMO]

Hello Mike hope your well , any idea when this fusiliers badge was worn please ? hello Paddy sum nice badges there thanks for showing - just want to get it clear in my head - how can we tell if these were made blacked / subdued for in the field use / combat and which ones were made for a tour of Ireland ?? not nit picking just think it an important point which badges were designated as such .....

" badge - headress / subdued / N.I issue " on the stores ticket

thanks Michael.

[Sunray9]

After 1958 Royal Marinecap badges were annodised, in 1964, when the Corps started to finally get rid of BD uniform and replaced by Lovat Green, the buttons and cap badges were made of bronze material. The Corps now wear annodised cap badges mostly in 'Blues' No.1 dress.

[1stTankie]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

For the Kings Regiment see " Badge Backing and Special Embelishments of the British Army" page 90, which gives details of a specially made black "plastic" black badge worn for a short period in February 1975.

P.B.

I think this may the badge worn by The King's Regiment in NI. (I was there at that time with 1UDR)The badge came complete with its own rather skinny version of the securing pin.

Best wishes

Gordon

[tynesideirish]

Michael, The RRF Painted badge was worn in Belfast 1981 the second in Co.Tyrone 1984-86 and the one with blades like yours was worn in South Armagh 1988-89. Mike

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Jeff Mc William

Hi all
Following an interesting chat with phil2m on the "visitor messages" site regarding blackened badges for use in N.Ireland, it was decided it would be a good idea to widen the discussion into a proper forum thread in order to include some further expert input :
It seems to be widely accepted that many units painted over their regimental cap badges in matt-black, while one or two adopted either a black plastic badge (ie the Royal Fusiliers) or had a "subdued" design (like the Royal Signals..I think).
Also, according to my note book, an entry dated 23/01/2008 says that Alan O mentioned a factory-made blackened a/a badge for the Argylls on the forum. I am still "kicking myself" now, because when challenged about this, I could not find the thread ! So I wonder Alan if you could confirm this, and possibly elaborate (ie makers name, and any other issues etc). Thanks.
Again, like many others, I am looking forward to Hagwalther's new book re a/a's and wonder if his findings can confirm this and perhaps reveal any other regiments in N.Ireland who had purpose-made blackened badges. Regards Jeff

Hi Jeff,

From my book:

Chapter 20 - Classification Groups

6. Subdued Badges

Subdued badges are always difficult to evaluate. Many were just a basic badge that had been ‘painted up’ in Regimental workshops or blackened individually in barracks. Others were ordered by individual Regiments and manufactured by official Ministry of Defence contractors and were often worn by serving personnel whilst carrying out their duties. However, most subdued examples were, and continue to be, commissioned by dealers for direct sale to collectors. From a War Office and a Ministry of Defence perspective though, all subdued anodised aluminium cap badge are unofficial and unauthorised items.

From the image captions - I show three different examples of both obverse and reverse images.

1. The Royal Pioneer Corps cap badge in subdued finish and marked ‘LONDON BADGE AND BUTTON CO LTD’.

2. A subdued and this time an unmarked example of the Special Air Service Regiment believed to have been commissioned by a regalia specialist located in the south of England. When sold it was described as ‘Combat Issue’.

3. An example of an officially authorised for issue cap badge of the 307th (R.H.A.) (South Notts Hussars Yeomanry) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery (TA) with an early and very rare Firmin & Sons marking with curved line ‘FIRMIN & SONS’ over a straight ‘LONDON’ - (Mark 2.6). This example has been ‘painted up’ to produce a subdued finish and was probably worn on official duties.

Many collectors would consider subdued badges to be of interest value only.

Jeff, my research, and therefore the book, comes from a War Office and a Ministry of Defence perspective only. Many of these badges may have been commissioned at Regimental level and issued at Regimental expense although I have never seen any official documentation to back this up.

Most of the modern companies made subdued badges such as London Badge and Button Co Ltd and Firmin. Many of these badges though were commissioned by dealers to line their own pockets and in my opinion these pieces have no place in a collection.

Hope this helps...

Regards

Chris

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

"...have been commissioned by a regalia
specialist located in the south of England.

You are being kind, Chris. I have held myself back from buying the Irish Guards subdued badge for Afghanistan from what I suspect is the same source.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

You are being kind, Chris. I have held myself back from buying the Irish Guards subdued badge for Afghanistan from what I suspect is the same source.

Hi John,

Well yes.

I could say lots more but probably best if I don't...

Regards

Chris

[Fatboy Ken]

So !!! basically paint the badge "MATT BLACK" !! like we used to do, and say it's an NI badge, ......... like "we" do !! =-) Hahahaha

Seriously though, we almost all of us painted the bloody things, it was cheap and cheerful, and was better than buying one for more money than we could find, ..... well !! in the RCT it was anyway. =-((


If you're gonna do it though, use "Matt BLACK Spray paint", do the back first, leave to dry, then paint the front. I don't think you'll be able to get IRR paint though.

Ken (The Fatboy)

[ebro]

Paddy,
I do not believe the UDR badge was factory blackened. It was normally painted by the wearer.
Eddie

[Peter Brydon]

Regarding the Kings badge which was maufactured in black, the badge shown by Gordon is the one I mentioned.

I have had 2 examples over the years,one recently and the other I got many years ago from the officer who was Brigade Major of 8 Infantry Brigade. A copy of the letter which accompanied the badge is attached,unfortunatly not dated.

The badge was, according to what I was told, made in Hong Kong prior to a tour of Northern Ireland.The badges were not popular and were to be destroyed but the Quartermaster gave 12 examples to the officer I got my original example from.

I dont know if only 12 examples exist but it does appear to be a scarce badge.

P.B.

[REMEVMBEA1]

The blacking of badges must have been started after about 1973 as I was attached to 5 Lt Regt RA on 1 3 month and 4 short tours in NI between 1969 and 72 and can't recall ever seeing blackened badges , we certainly never wore them as outside camp we always wore tin hats.

[Jeff Mc William]

Crumbs..I've really started something haven't I ?
This has been a terrific thread and I am learning much. Thank you one and all. Jeff

[wright241]

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

The blacking of badges must have been started after about 1973 as I was attached to 5 Lt Regt RA on 1 3 month and 4 short tours in NI between 1969 and 72 and can't recall ever seeing blackened badges , we certainly never wore them as outside camp we always wore tin hats.

I recall having a chat with RA guys at their checkpoint outside the the back of the Queens Hotel/market area and they were wearing the gun badge on berets - no helmets then - between 1971/75, and it wasn't blackened. As I often travelled to Belfast (and all over NI) for work purposes and pleasure, the only recollection I have of seeing blackened badges was the plastic Fusilier version and blackened Green Jackets(?) - and RUC - at various vehicle checkpoints, outside of the city area. I did manage to procure one of the black plastic - but disliked (maybe thats why......) Fusilier badges.
David

[49lassiepen]

If i remember correctly the D&D museum the Keep have 3 different examples of blackened badges,i have 2

[engr9266]

I have a couple of I R black painted RE badge's, a black metal RE badge(no maker name) and a "parkerized" RE metal badge(again no maker name)
A strange one, one of the painted badge's has had the slider removed and lugs fitted north & south.
During a couple of NI tours we wore black painted badges which continued onto other tours elsewhere and exercise's(Cyprus, Gibraltar, F.I. BAOR, GW 1 etc)