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  #31  
Old 11-08-13, 09:04 AM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Originally Posted by Fatherofthree View Post
Greetings all.

Badge guides; in essence, yes, all very commendable and a worthwhile project.........however, what a fabulous source of information for those who produce fakes.

Shape, size, metals, variations, lugs or sliders or both, etcetera.

Regards

Brian
Brian,
the fakes are already out there in their thousands, the only way to prevent fakers producing more is to alert collectors of what to look for in a good badge!

Andy
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  #32  
Old 11-08-13, 09:33 AM
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wright241 wright241 is offline
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Default Authenticating process for postage stamp - read "badge"

A nerdy comment.
I am going to be repeating myself yet again here as I have mentioned this many, many times. Bear with me on this....

Where I use the word front and back of a stamp, substitute the word "badge". If this seems out of context than ignore it.
By the way - most - of not all - of the stamp "fakers" went out of business years ago. The process I describe here, is what they came up with to stop it.
There is no guide for buying good quality and genuine stamps (of which I spent years doing and have a lot of experience), what you have to do is send a stamp to a recognised body of experts - an Expertising Committee assuming that a certificate doesn't already exist) and:-
a) they will register a numbered picture of the front and rear
b) they will also record a comment about exactly what the stamp is (good or bad) and its quality, i.e. "genuineness", period of use, and state (from used to unmounted mint).
c) they issue a certificate signed by at least 3 experts - who will have inspected the stamp.
The cost (the last time I did it) was £25.00.
There is no maintenance cost on the records. Anyone can enquire about the certificate and its number for a very small fee. End of story.
Other antiques, such as paintings would come with a letter of authentication. But not all items (e.g. furniture, bronzes, other works of art) have this information - except when they go to an auction house to be sold and you get the bad/good news.

Note: there are no books on what constitutes a genuine stamp - if it doesn't have a certificate, then its deemed to be suspect - by default.
Which in a strange way - is what the forum provides - except that the advice and opinion varies - as I have found to my cost.

Unless this is done, we can argue about this until the cows come home and as has been found - not all badge books actually contain pictures of genuine badges.........

fyi: I have enclosed a copy of one in my possession for a specific set of QEII Bahamas that were printed on a special "whiter" paper - and which makes them more valuable than the "normal" ones.


Have a nice day.
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  #33  
Old 14-11-13, 01:07 PM
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Default Badge reference guide 1st template

I have put together some badges with information regarding dimensions and (loose) period of wear. Is this the type of reference guide format that would be useful?
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  #34  
Old 14-11-13, 04:50 PM
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David Tremain David Tremain is offline
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I've just measured my North Irish Horse QC, WM and the dimensions are 44mm width x 40mm height. Does that fit with what you have, Rockape?

David

Last edited by David Tremain; 14-11-13 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Measurements were partially incorrect
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  #35  
Old 14-11-13, 07:25 PM
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Hello David,

I don't collect badges past WW1 usually, but I obtained the WW2 badge in this instance so thought to include it. I definitely don't collect ERII era badges. Someone else will have to answer your question.

Your question raises an interesting issue though. As my collection field is limited (1900-1939), this project will need some collaboration of effort to succeed.

Garry
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  #36  
Old 14-11-13, 07:37 PM
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I would agree, Garry, given that we all tend to cover different periods with our badges. If the North Irish Horse section were to be expanded I would be willing to contribute a picture of mine. Not saying it's a good one, mind! For all I know it could be a dud. Anyway, any project like this should have good and bad so we can learn from them.

David
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  #37  
Old 14-10-14, 09:35 AM
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Dear Fellow Members,

I have been busy this last year but have now got some time to devote to the hobby. I have taken your points of view on-board and I have cobbled together a badge guide portable document format. I would like some constructive feedback on this format please.

The first page shows a comparison of two badges worn by the same unit at different periods in history. The second page is the author notes and references. As it is in pdf format there is scope for more than two pages per unit.

A free Acrobat reader can be found here: http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/

If the majority of members like this format, I will use it create more badge guides. If anyone wants to get involved in this project please p.m me.
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  #38  
Old 26-10-14, 08:33 PM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is online now
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Cool Reference Guide?

Garry,

While I think your idea is very good, I don't think it will ever be completed with any degree of satisfaction, the variations between genuine cap badges due to manufacturers dies is almost never ending. One only has to look at KLR's superb range of Kings Liverpool cap badges to get an idea of what will be involved, multiply that by all the other line Regiments of the Great War, the TF, Corps, Yeomanry and Cavalry and you will have a mammoth job to complete. This would encompass only one period of badges.

As Brian said it will be a fantastic reference work for fakers to up their game with dimensions, correct metals, sliders and loop positions all easily available.

I was at a militaria fair today and saw the high priced fakes sitting in the cases, when I pointed out to the dealer that a badge was a dud I got the usual story that the badge belonged to a very discerning collector who knew his stuff, this badge has been discussed at length on the forum with the opinion that it is a fantasy item with no proof of it ever been worn.

Collecting badges is more difficult now to find genuine badges with the amount of fakes out there than it was in the sixties, but knowledge can only be gained by asking questions with more experienced collectors or searching this forum for opinions. Badge dealers always seem to have a plausible story to fit the bill with their wares as many forum members have discovered.

If this does go ahead I wish the project well and will try to contribute, but I fear it will never be completed due to the enormity of the subject.

Rob
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  #39  
Old 26-10-14, 10:43 PM
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Hi Rob,

Many thanks for your thoughts on the guide. I understand your concerns that this could be a huge project and some have already indicated they will not contribute to it. The project is not about me but the forum as a collective. I am willing to co-ordinate the project but it needs many members to contribute to it for it to be a success. There is no need to cover every badge as that would take a lifetime. Instead the participants can agree what they want to cover in a similar style to the example I gave. For example the Royal Artillery could be covered by the regular badges and territorial badges with maybe just some text for volunteers and militia with general notes similar to the style Lawrence Archer used.

It's not the first time I have encountered the worry that fakers can use the notes to get better fakes. If we do nothing they will still improve by obtaining genuine examples and copying them. They may in fact use standard references to gain some of their information. If you search through the forum you will also learn how to fake. To not do it would be giving in to the fakers.

The material we need for a badge guide is actually here at our fingertips on the forum pages but is fragmented into different threads. That is why I would like galvanise members to bring a assemble this information together so that members have a decent badge reference.

We know from discussions that the standard references we use such as K&K; Gaylor; Cox; Wilkinson; Cossum; Brooker etc have errors or omissions and so we need a better guide. The guide too will become out-of-date as the years pass so the format used needs to able to be edited.

Of course the final caveat is that unless members come forward to help achieve this project it's a non-starter!
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  #40  
Old 03-11-14, 09:32 AM
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I've had a long hard think about this and the support for this project is not there, except for one or two members. Therefore I have decided to put my efforts into writing a book which will hopefully fill a void in our hobby. Thank you all for participating in the discussion. Your opinions are highly valued.

Regards,

Garry
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  #41  
Old 21-07-15, 08:10 PM
KingHouse KingHouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubervamp View Post
After a coffee and politically incorrect cigarette I've a few more thoughts reagarding this;

I suppose there are several ways of presenting a reference library as such.
One would be a "general overview" of, say, cap badges of WW1 Infantry of the Line. This would be on par with the CEF album.
This is a great way to get an overview, and help identifying badges (genuine badges!) In response to my very first post on the forum I was kindly offered pics and such a list from a member which helped me immensly.

In addition, I know a lot (most) of the contributing members have one or two areas (regiments?)about which they are particularly knowledgeable.
It would be great to be able to mine that knowledge, if one is interested in the same or similar regiment/period. It might be an idea to reference these albums from a general overview. Just the other day I was checking out the CEF battalions album, and appreciated the layout, but found upon clicking on the one battalion I was most interested in no further information.

I suppose more specialised information again takes two forms:
One, physical attributes: Design, Fittings, Variations, etc.


Another would be a wider information on the given subject (battalion) such as battle record, regimental history, etc.

Personally, a badge holds both these dimensions for me, and when studying a badge I find I'd like to know more about the symbolism and history of the badge and who wore it and where.

Ok - rambling on a bit here.
(Caffeine and nicotine induced)

In short - still a very cool idea, no matter how it's finalized

Colin
I feel this would be very helpful for a rookie like me.
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  #42  
Old 21-07-15, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
Garry,
the vendor is very good and not often does he offer dubious items, although I would not rush to buy his pre 1906 7th Dgns either, which appears to be a copy of the officers pattern badge in whitemetal but that is two out of stacks!

The project I'm working on would not be free, hence if I contribute here too, others may think I've other motives? I will still continue to offer advice where I can!

Andy
hi andy any idea when your book will be ready
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  #43  
Old 21-07-15, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike c View Post
hi andy any idea when your book will be ready
Yeh Andy, when will it be ready
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  #44  
Old 22-07-15, 05:52 AM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Ivan,
I shall double my efforts!

Andy
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