Surrey Infantry Museum

[2747andy]

Matti,
that's exactly what I meant!

It just brings home how important it is to share and therefore record information and images of what we all have in our collections! Too late when your desk goes up in smoke

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Forget it

[Peter Brydon]

The loss is one of the reasons I think all regimental Museums should have a web site like this one:

http://www.kingsownmuseum.plus.com/

The whole of a collection can be displayed on line ( for all time ?) whereas it seems to be the politically correct thing today for Museums to reduce the number of historic items on display and to replace them with " touchy feely " items.

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

Duplicate

[GTB]

A real tragedy. But I'm sure that something (perhaps more than expected?) would have been saved. When I see the vast amounts of uniforms, insignia and artefacts displayed in foreign museums I can't help being in wonder as to how on earth so much survived the conflagrations of two world wars: rape of Poland, firebombings of German cities, systematic destruction and pillaging of Belgium in WW1, savage and wanton destruction of Tsarist Russia, etc, etc ad nauseam. So there is hope!!

GTB

[David Tremain]

I just emailed the head of the National Trust expressing my concern about why there was no fire protection in the house. She is quoted as saying that stately homes are exempt as sprinkler systems cause too many problems. Yeah, like putting fires out!

The fact is, sprinklers don't go off unless there's a fire. If they do at other times, it's because (a) someone's banged one while doing something nearby; (b) the head was faulty in the first place; (c) it was old and corroded. Besides, surely a bit of water damage is better than something being totally destroyed or charred beyond recognition. Most artifacts can be restored after being water-damaged, but there's not much you can do about something that's burnt to a crisp.

I spent years here in Canada teaching museums about emergency preparedness and response, the importance of fire detection and prevention systems, security etc. There have been too many historic structures throughout the world that have been destroyed or severely damaged because of stupid rules (or lack of), negligence, or criminal acts. When will they ever learn?

The whole thing pales, however, when you see what happened in Nepal.

David

[Mike_2817]

In the UK - Windsor Castle comes to mind, which now has a state of the art fire suppression system. York Minster is another that comes to mind.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/...uppression.htm

Effective fire prevention measures such as staff training and smoke detection systems are often relied on as an alternative to fire suppression. Yet early warning by smoke detection is very far from being a guarantee against fire loss, and it can be completely ineffective, even with automatic dialling. Disasters such as those at Uppark and Windsor Castle happened despite the prompt attendance of the fire service.

Most fires in sprinklered buildings are controlled by the action of one or two sprinkler heads at most. Sprinkler heads are basically valves that are held shut by a temperature sensitive linkage. They are rated to respond to the sort of temperature that can only be the result of a flaming fire. By the time a sprinkler head goes off the fire that set it off has, by definition, reached the stage where only water will stop it. By acting directly onto the seat of a fire, sprinklers reduce the level of water damage compared with the only alternative, the fireman’s hose or hydraulic monitor. By acting early in the development of a fire, both fire and water damage are minimised. The often repeated assertion that sprinklers are synonymous with water damage is therefore nonsense.

In modern systems - Gone are the days of every sprinkler in the system going off when one does!

[David Tremain]

Thanks, Mike, for this. A good article, although he doesn't mention fire separation (or lack of), which is a common problem in historic buildings and why the fire at Windsor spread so quickly.

Uppark House in Sussex, Hampton Court, and the Hofburg Palace in Vienna also come to mind and occurred shortly after one another. Doubtless there are others we could name.

The author seems to think that early smoke detection isn't reliable, which I don't believe is true. New systems, such as VESDA - Very Early Smoke Detection Apparatus - are very sensitive to particles of around 3 microns, which is very small. In fact, they have to be shut off if there is any work that creates dust.

All that to say, that the authorities responsible for the custodianship of cultural heritage, whether it be military or otherwise, need to be cognizant of the fact that fires can and do happen, to devastating effect. Installation of proper protection systems, building maintenance, replacement of faulty wiring (a major cause i.e. with Glasgow School of Art last year), hot work, such as welding or roof tarring, and training, training, training. Treat this as a wake up call and get off your ass!

Phew! That feels better!

David

[Mike_2817]

I agree but it does talk about knocking the fire out early with a tight zone so that water damage is contained to that area. I think he is talking about smoke detectors where there is no sprinkler system, which allows to fire to take hold before the fire service arrive? Old historic building do not always even have fire rated doors even if the are kept shut.

[Ben Waterhouse]

Desperately sad, my wife and I visited a week before the fire. I think the VCs were copies and all the written records were elsewhere. I believe four colours were saved, those in the corridor, and maybe some medals in the medal drawers can be salvaged but hardly anything else.

The Surreys do have a first class website with lots of badges illustrated here http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/index.shtml