RMA cap badges - varying sizes, walking out badges

[Ray6930]

Saw the below offered for sale today and found it fascinating - clarifying something in a recent thread but throwing some other badges into some doubt.

Within a recent thread there was a query about varying sizes of the grenade and flames of the RMA cap badge. What I had seen in some pics led me to believe that there was a difference in size between the basic badge and that of the gilt/giilded SNCO badge - when I saw it in the flesh today confirmed that, the flames on the SNCO one are certainly slightly narrower than the basic badge - and the collar of the bomb that the flames errupt from is slightly different too.

The big 'wow'????? aspect of this item was, if it is genuine, is the fact that the Lance Bombadier walking out badge has no grenade piece at all - and in both the Bombadier and Sergeant versions the grenade is actually separated from the stripes. Every version I have ever seen have the grenade joined to the stripes - and a grenade on all three.
The pic was taken with my camera phone so, if you cannot read it, the card reads 'ROYAL MARINE ARTILLERY These badges were obtained from a private source having been in the families possession since at least WWI, belonging to owner's father (Cinque Ports Fortress Engineers) whose father was a Marine. UNDRESS-CAP (PILLBOX) 1855-1857

Any thoughts, information welcomed
Ray

[cossack]

Hi Ray,
My first thought was were the lugs e/w or n/s?

Andy

[Ray6930]

Morning Andy
My first thought also - and the lugs on both grenades were North/South

I wondered if anyone has any photo (in use or from museum) that would be good enough to be able to spot whether the two pieces were joined or not.

Ray

[abu-klea]

Evening Ray - in Regiment magazine Jan/Feb 2001, Royal Marines part1 there is a photo on page 51 of the Lance Bombadier badge on a pill box cap with grenade and chevron. However the caption describes the photo as "a marine of the Royal Marine Artillery in Full Dress 1871-1878". Typo perhaps?

[Ray6930]

Morning abu
Well that possibly clears up one aspect on whether the Lance Bombadier had the grenade or not (as the card they were on appeared to have been done by the seller rather than the owner I did wonder whether the greande had got lost somewhere along the line.

Does the picture you refer to have enough clarity to tell whether the grenade is joined to the chevron or not?
Ray

[abu-klea]

Hello Ray, it certainly looks joined, in as much as you cannot see any of the red? cap band between the grenade and chevron - the ball is well down inside the angle. I'll try and scan the picture and post it if possible.

Pete

[ncc]

interesting pic,seems no grenade and different shape to chevron..
Bob

[Ray6930]

Thanks for posting that Bob
Certainly looks like no grenade there and as you say, larger looking chevron with curving perhaps
Ray

[ncc]

its also interesting because the photo dates from the 1870s.
Bob