British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > It's a Mystery -Unknown Insignia for Identification

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 20-07-13, 07:46 PM
Sunray9's Avatar
Sunray9 Sunray9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 591
Default

Grateful thanks for that Paul !

Ritchie.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 20-07-13, 10:19 PM
Fatherofthree's Avatar
Fatherofthree Fatherofthree is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,658
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter monahan View Post
What's the "RR Lancer", anybody?

until I read the 'period paper' bit. That's cool! And, I'd say, puts paid to suggestions that any on these beauties are not proper and period.

Peter
Not really cool and certainly not always proof the badges are the real thing, (although in this instance I'm sure they are).

A few years ago I purchased a small frame of what, at first, appeared to be genuine cavalry badges, mostly Life Guards if I remember correctly.

The board, in the frame, holding the badges was covered with newspaper dated 1915 or 16 and there was a good smattering of dust behind the badges etc, giving the impression of age and authenticity.

The badges were all modern copies....................a proper knock up of something made to deceive.........the bit of newspaper, (if indeed that was genuine) was probably worth more than the badges.

And by the by, the collection subject of this thread.... very nice.

Regards
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 20-07-13, 11:15 PM
Paul_Hermitage Paul_Hermitage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherofthree View Post
Not really cool and certainly not always proof the badges are the real thing, (although in this instance I'm sure they are).

A few years ago I purchased a small frame of what, at first, appeared to be genuine cavalry badges, mostly Life Guards if I remember correctly.

The board, in the frame, holding the badges was covered with newspaper dated 1915 or 16 and there was a good smattering of dust behind the badges etc, giving the impression of age and authenticity.

The badges were all modern copies....................a proper knock up of something made to deceive.........the bit of newspaper, (if indeed that was genuine) was probably worth more than the badges.

And by the by, the collection subject of this thread.... very nice.

Regards
Brian

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your input. I agree completely with your sentiments generally, however what we have here is a completely genuine set of badges collected during, and up to just after WW1 (I have found one which is as late as 1920). I have attached some pictures of the extraction of one of these badges.

Behind most badges there is hardly any oxidisation. A picture of the Cameron badge too illustrates this. All the badges have left an historical imprint on the cloth backing.

Anyway I am extracting all the badges now, so should complete this process by tomorrow.

Kindest Regards

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1120472.jpg (49.4 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg P1120473.jpg (44.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg P1120474.jpg (54.4 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg P1120476.jpg (46.2 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg P1120477.jpg (61.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg P1120478.jpg (56.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg P1120481.jpg (70.1 KB, 36 views)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 21-07-13, 12:07 AM
Paul_Hermitage Paul_Hermitage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Hermitage View Post
Hi Tim,

Looks like a good match. Thank you.

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/force...71orhelmet.htm

It would be good to know if the back of the badge I have is consistent with this type of badge design. I will extract it from the board tomorrow and upload a picture of the back.

Kindest Regards

Paul
And finally one board cleared, and a picture of the 3DG 1871 helmet plate that started the thread. I have realised the points on this were cut off to fit it onto the board.

Thanks for everybody's comments and help today!

Kind Regards

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1120489.jpg (73.9 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg P1120490.jpg (75.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg P1120491.jpg (68.7 KB, 30 views)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 21-07-13, 11:20 AM
Nozzer Nozzer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Hermitage View Post
Hi PL,

It looks like it, but intriguingly I do not think it is the same design as the post 1937 Norfolk Regt badge, it is bigger. The lady is the same design as the wreathed WW1 Norfolk Regt badge.

Please see attached pictures.

Views on this would be most welcome

Many Thanks

Paul
Pagri/pugaree badge

Can anyone give the dates of use please?

Any chance of a close up of the pre 37 Norfolk badge Paul?

Great collection

Regards,

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 21-07-13, 12:32 PM
Paul_Hermitage Paul_Hermitage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzer View Post
Pagri/pugaree badge

Can anyone give the dates of use please?

Any chance of a close up of the pre 37 Norfolk badge Paul?

Great collection

Regards,

Andy
Hi Andy,

I have taken close up pictures of all the badges now. They are just uploading to photobucket. I will send out the link shortly.

Many thanks and kind regards.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 21-07-13, 01:00 PM
Paul_Hermitage Paul_Hermitage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Default Link to photo's of all badges in the collection.

Hi All,

I have uploaded HiRes pictures of all the badges onto photobucket now:

http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/pa...?sort=2&page=1

Comments welcome.

Kindest Regards

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 21-07-13, 02:10 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

The MMG is a great reference badge for what a genuine one looks like.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 21-07-13, 02:12 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

The MMG is a great reference badge for what a genuine one looks like.

Also the gren guards is the 14 point flame variant which I have always believed to be pre-war so it is nice to have that confirmed.

Likewise for the BY DAND variant of the Gordon Highlanders.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 21-07-13, 02:37 PM
Sunray9's Avatar
Sunray9 Sunray9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 591
Default

Stunning !
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 21-07-13, 10:39 PM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default 9 lancers

hi guys
the 9th lancers has the crown attached and not one piece. is this usual? never noticed that before
bc
http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/pa...ml?sort=2&o=56
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 22-07-13, 12:28 AM
Fatherofthree's Avatar
Fatherofthree Fatherofthree is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,658
Default

Hi Paul.

In no way was I suggesting that your superb boards of badges were in any way doubtful, it was just a comment that not all that glitters is gold, as they say.

It's good to see the Middlesex 7th -9th Battalion badge; the South Africa scroll is overlaid on the Albuhera scroll, but what makes it more interesting is that although I've seen several with this overlay, and have some in my collection, this is the first I have seen on a lugged bi-metal badge.

I do have a lugged white metal Middlesex with this overlay.

It goes a little way towards my theory that when the 7th - 9th were formed, the early joiners were issued with this style of badge, i.e. the overlaid scroll.

Either because dies weren't in place for their own pattern, or hadn't been considered, hence old or surplus stock of The Regulars pattern was pressed into service.

However, it is also possible that the overlaid badges were produced later in time, again, just to use up old or surplus stock.

Whatever the answer, a very nice badge.

Regards
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 22-07-13, 08:12 PM
Keith Blakeman's Avatar
Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Staring into space, just wishing I had a desk.
Posts: 2,952
Default

Some lovely badges here. The construction of some makes comments previously made on here about the validity of badges posted for opinion in the past seem absurd, round sweatholes being one of them in fact the presence and necessity of sweatholes in general. The East Surrey badge is an interesting item as is the Norfolks regular one which appears to be all nickel, VB, Militia, Walking Out ?

Reminds me of a collection of Pre-WW1/Boer War I bought years ago and there are those who still believe the Welsh Horse shouldn't come with loops.

The 9th Lancers is a real puzzle though.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 22-07-13, 08:31 PM
wardog's Avatar
wardog wardog is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,502
Default

Very true Keith-few crimp lines, some lugged feet and scrolls with no rear detail. I guess all we know for sure is that there are no hard and fast rules in this game and little that can be stated to be 100% fact. Regards, Paul.

Last edited by wardog; 22-07-13 at 08:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 22-07-13, 09:22 PM
Paul_Hermitage Paul_Hermitage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
Some lovely badges here. The construction of some makes comments previously made on here about the validity of badges posted for opinion in the past seem absurd, round sweatholes being one of them in fact the presence and necessity of sweatholes in general. The East Surrey badge is an interesting item as is the Norfolks regular one which appears to be all nickel, VB, Militia, Walking Out ?

Reminds me of a collection of Pre-WW1/Boer War I bought years ago and there are those who still believe the Welsh Horse shouldn't come with loops.

The 9th Lancers is a real puzzle though.
Hi Keith,

I believe this, and your Pre-WW1/Boer war badges represent good contextual collections that can (and should) be benchmarks of their respective periods.

I suspect some perceptions have been created, which are driving expectations of the market on what is normal.

For example - in this collection only one British badge is maker marked (and not Gaunt), and yet the maker marked badges in the market now drive the higher prices, as they are perceived as evidence for the "norm" of genuine period badges. But perhaps we should accept the contextual evidence here that suggests this is not the case, in fact the opposite. Same for sweatholes in every case etc...

As for the 9th Lancers perhaps it is an earlier manufactured example. Or perhaps its another example of the perceived "norm" for this badge being different from what it actually is.

Kind Regards

Paul
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.