WW1 Cap Badge - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Uncle Albert · #1 21-08-11, 07:17 PM

Hi,

I've just been given my great grandad's medals and cap badge from WW1 and would be interested if you could explain it for me..

I know that he was in the Army Service Corp, motorized division and that he was one of the "contempibles" at the beginning of the war in France.
However, the badge has the "Honi Soit Que Mal Y Pense" motto which I thought was the Grenadier Guard's motto.

I know that they were also in the "rush to the sea", but why has his badge got the motto on it?
Was he attached to the Grenadiers?

Here are some pictures of the badge ..

Thanks in advance..

Also, a bit of a long shot, I also have a picture of his father, my great great grandad. He is wearing what I know is a cavalry uniform from about 1870 but I don't know which regiment. It is possible that he was based in Scotland at some point but he came from London..

Any clues?

Phil2M · #2 21-08-11, 09:01 PM

Hi,

Your first photo looks like a helmet plate with the helmet plate centre of the Army Service Corps. The latin is the motto of the order of the garter and is shared by many regiments including the ASC and Royal Engineers.

Thats all I can tell you, this is outside of my area.

Regards

Phil

CftD · #3 21-08-11, 09:17 PM

The badge you illustrate is, as already stated, an other ranks' helmet plate of the Army Service Corps of the period 1902-1914. The style was adopted by most Corps except RAMC, RE and RA. The outer part (the crowned star) was universal with a device relevant to the particular Corps displayed in the centre. Hope that helps. David

GriffMJ · #4 21-08-11, 09:34 PM

I have tried my best with the chap in the chain mail .... this is the best I can do?

Its a small collar?? There is a smudge over the near collar ... but I didnt remove it for fear of taking out any detail of the collar.

He is an Hussar of some sort..... the ball buttons on the front blues jacket with the chain mail (Yeomanry?)

Uncle Albert · #5 21-08-11, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I have tried my best with the chap in the chain mail .... this is the best I can do?

Its a small collar?? There is a smudge over the near collar ... but I didnt remove it for fear of taking out any detail of the collar.

He is an Hussar of some sort..... the ball buttons on the front blues jacket with the chain mail (Yeomanry?)

Thank you all for the quick replies and help..

If I can find out anything more about Arthur heffernon ( the Hussar ! ) I'll post back..

Thanks again..

Uncle Albert · #6 21-08-11, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I have tried my best with the chap in the chain mail .... this is the best I can do?

Its a small collar?? There is a smudge over the near collar ... but I didnt remove it for fear of taking out any detail of the collar.

He is an Hussar of some sort..... the ball buttons on the front blues jacket with the chain mail (Yeomanry?)

Not sure if this can be a coincidence...

Just searched google and found this on a medal list site for Cavalry award the QSA medal..

3836 Private Heffernon A. 13th Hussars

GriffMJ · #7 21-08-11, 10:09 PM

A better picture of the buttons on his jacket will be the answer..... if they are in focus on the photo.... a large resolution scan (600dpi) would show more detail. BTW I think the uniform is later than the date you have quoted.... the medal ribbon looks like WW1 (Post 1916)?

Uncle Albert · #8 21-08-11, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

A better picture of the buttons on his jacket will be the answer..... if they are in focus on the photo.... a large resolution scan (600dpi) would show more detail.

Unfortunately the picture I posted is as good as the original. I tried, like you did, to focus it with photoshop but with no luck..

I have a huge box of old photos now so maybe there is a better one in there somewhere..

Uncle Albert · #9 21-08-11, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

A better picture of the buttons on his jacket will be the answer..... if they are in focus on the photo.... a large resolution scan (600dpi) would show more detail. BTW I think the uniform is later than the date you have quoted.... the medal ribbon looks like WW1 (Post 1916)?

He was born in around 1855 so WW1 would be way too late .. He looks around 20 in this photo..

Unless the picture I have is incorrectly labelled but I don't think it is. All the pictures I have are pretty well documented..

GriffMJ · #10 21-08-11, 11:21 PM

If it was 1870.... I am sure it would be a different style of photo. The Look and feel of the above photo is early 1920s (The medal ribbon is the give away - I am sure others will confirm what the medal ribbon is).

For example (PAOLYC Trooper 1870):-

Uncle Albert · #11 22-08-11, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

If it was 1870.... I am sure it would be a different style of photo. The Look and feel of the above photo is early 1920s (The medal ribbon is the give away - I am sure others will confirm what the medal ribbon is).

For example (PAOLYC Trooper 1870):-

Thanks Griff, that photo certainly does look more like an 1870's picture.
I think It needs a bit of investigation. There is the possibility that there was more than one Arthur in the family line and the picture has been marked up wrongly.
The thing that I did notice was that the A. Heffernon on the medal roll was awarded the medal at the Freeing of Ladysmith in the Boer War which was in 1899/1900. That would have made him in his forties which I presume would be a bit old for a serving cavalryman...

GriffMJ · #12 22-08-11, 08:34 AM

The Photo is signed "Yours Frank"? The medal ribbon is not Boer War, in a black and white photo the Boar war Ribbon is very identifiable. The chap in the photo is a Trooper by the look of it.

Uncle Albert · #13 22-08-11, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

The Photo is signed "Yours Frank"? The medal ribbon is not Boer War, in a black and white photo the Boar war Ribbon is very identifiable. The chap in the photo is a Trooper by the look of it.

Ignore this post.. read my post below..

Rob Miller · #14 22-08-11, 04:53 PM

I had a great uncle who always used his middle name, it may be worth checking?

Uncle Albert · #15 22-08-11, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

The Photo is signed "Yours Frank"? The medal ribbon is not Boer War, in a black and white photo the Boar war Ribbon is very identifiable. The chap in the photo is a Trooper by the look of it.

I think the riddle is nearly solved. I found this picture of the same person, and this one is labelled as "Frank". He has a different uniform on but it still looks like he rides a horse ...

The only problem is I have no idea who "Frank " is , although it is in the old family picture file so... . back to the drawing board