What does “NZMGS” stand for??????

[OtagoBoB]

"Belcher was at Gallipoli from May 1915 to 20 December 1915, even if he only played a defensive role for most of the campaign that’s a long period of time by Gallipoli standard. Defensive positions were overrun and retaken all the time, I am thinking that opportunities from prisoners or the dead would have been very possible."

The War Diaries of the 5th Light Horse Regiment are available on-line. The only mention I could see of captured Turkish weaponry during the Gallipoli Campaign was a rifle and a bayonet. The diary entries for May to December 1915 make it clear that 5 LH in its defensive role had very little contact with the Turks, alive or dead. The Sinai/Palestine Campaign is quite another matter.

[pukman]

I received a pair of NZMGC badges today .They fitted the existing lug holes of this named WW1 jacket .This is what I think should be the right configuration for a 1st NZMGS coming home jacket .I will be keeping the specialist and reinforcement number shoulder titles badges that were on the jacket ,as they were in the effects of the Trooper ,but just not worn when ''coming home''

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by pukman

I received a pair of NZMGC badges today .They fitted the existing lug holes of this named WW1 jacket .This is what I think should be the right configuration for a 1st NZMGS coming home jacket .I will be keeping the specialist and reinforcement number shoulder titles badges that were on the jacket ,as they were in the effects of the Trooper ,but just not worn when ''coming home''

It looks like a perfect fit. I must say I am a little green with envy.

[pukman]

As per post 72 of this thread ,another example of the NZSC shoulder title(New Zealand Specialist Company)
Charles Edward Hannah 65701
Photo(Onward Project)

[pukman]

Here are 3 unidentified NZMGS soldiers ,photo taken in Egypt. The chap in the centre has a British MGC hat badge and NZMGC collars .The soldier on the right has NZMGC cap and collars and a NZMR shoulder title .For those uniform train spotters out there ,the soldier in the centre is wearing an Australian jacket

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by pukman

Here are 3 unidentified NZMGS soldiers ,photo taken in Egypt. The chap in the centre has a British MGC hat badge and NZMGC collars .The soldier on the right has NZMGC cap and collars and a NZMR shoulder title .For those uniform train spotters out there ,the soldier in the centre is wearing an Australian jacket

Another superb picture, can you please show a close up of the badges of the soldier on the right if possible?

[pukman]

Originally Posted by atillathenunns

Another superb picture, can you please show a close up of the badges of the soldier on the right if possible?

Here is all 3

[atillathenunns]

Puk it is interesting to see a clear shot of the NZMR shoulder title which fits with my comments in the second post of this thread, that is to say it is highly unlikely a photo of a NZMGS title being worn in the Middle East campaign will ever be found. Although I do have a couple of photos of Middle East veterans showing the NZMGC title being worn, but these photos appear to have been taken in New Zealand at the end of the war.

The following advertisement is for one of Aucklands biggest WW1 “military outfitters” and was published on the 7th November 1918.
Its importance to this thread is that in the list of “Brass Shoulder Titles” the “NZMGS” shoulder titles were being sold for 1/6 a pair (1 shilling and six pence = 15 cents)
Although there is no mention of a maker, it is my opinion that the NZ Machine Gun Section titles being offered by this outfitter were made by Australian badge makers Stokes and Sons.
(It is also my opinion that the NZ Native Corps cap and collar badges being offered by this outfitter are the ones that were made by Watts 4/283 & 4/286)





“Stokes & Sons (Melbourne) makers mark on a NZMGS shoulder title” courtesy of Puk (post# 12)

[atillathenunns]

The following advertisement is for New Zealand’s authorised WW1 cloth badge supplier P. Robert & Company (Previously mentioned in posts 44 & 51), and was published on the 15th December 1916.
Its importance to this thread is the two descriptions of. — “Machine Gun Spider” and “Machine Gun M.G. in wreath.”





The following picture (Previously mentioned in post #3) is what I believe is described as the “Machine Gun Spider.”



Sergeant Ludbrook (also previously mentioned in post #3) is wearing Third pattern Specialist collar badges and a “Machine Gun Spider” arm badge.



The following picture (Previously mentioned in post #14) shows Rifleman George Rae Shaw, Service No. 24/2089, New Zealand Rifle Brigade, 4th Reinforcements 2nd Battalion, F Company. Embarkation Date: 4 March 1916.
Rifleman Shaw is wearing on his left arm “Machine Gun M.G. in wreath” qualification badge.

[omok1]

(It is also my opinion that the NZ Native Corps cap and collar badges being offered by this outfitter are the ones that were made by Watts 4/283 & 4/286)


In reply to this, I beg to differ, as the NZNC titles that appeared some years ago found in a large box at this firm were all Gaunt stamped unissued left over from WW1. This flooded the market at the time as before then the only ones seen ( and rarely) were the Watts made ones.......NZNC titles after that were as common as many other WW1 titles. Many older collectors will remember when these showed up from Smith and Caugheys.

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by omok1

(It is also my opinion that the NZ Native Corps cap and collar badges being offered by this outfitter are the ones that were made by Watts 4/283 & 4/286)


In reply to this, I beg to differ, as the NZNC titles that appeared some years ago found in a large box at this firm were all Gaunt stamped unissued left over from WW1. This flooded the market at the time as before then the only ones seen ( and rarely) were the Watts made ones.......NZNC titles after that were as common as many other WW1 titles. Many older collectors will remember when these showed up from Smith and Caugheys.

No disrespect intended Omok1, but you have totally misinterpreted what I have posted.
I never mentioned anything about NZNC shoulder titles, I only mentioned “NZ Native Corps cap and collar badges.”

[pukman]

Here is my recently acquired NZSC shoulder title(no makers mark) .I have been reliably informed some of these NZSC badges were modified NZASC titles ,obviously with the A removed ,and expertly joined back together, to be used by the New Zealand Specialist company

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by pukman

Here is my recently acquired NZSC shoulder title(no makers mark) .I have been reliably informed some of these NZSC badges were modified NZASC titles ,obviously with the A removed ,and expertly joined back together, to be used by the New Zealand Specialist company

Puk it never ceases to amaze me what length collectors go to just to fill gaps in their collections, or twats who are just out to make a quick buck.
I haven’t come across any butchered NZASC titles, but I have seen some NZMGC titles modified to make the rarer NZMG titles, and it is quite common to find NZMR titles that have been modified to look like NZMP titles, which is something I doubt was ever done during WW1.

[pukman]

Originally Posted by atillathenunns

Puk it never ceases to amaze me what length collectors go to just to fill gaps in their collections, or twats who are just out to make a quick buck.
I haven’t come across any butchered NZASC titles, but I have seen some NZMGC titles modified to make the rarer NZMG titles, and it is quite common to find NZMR titles that have been modified to look like NZMP titles, which is something I doubt was ever done during WW1.

I guess Brent, that opens up a can of worms of what was period modified and what is modern

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by pukman

I guess Brent, that opens up a can of worms of what was period modified and what is modern

Here's a good example. The book says cut down from a RNZA badge, but I'm thinking it is a butchered NZASC title.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=729891189