General List badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

WJ Miller · #1 19-03-09, 09:11 PM

The other ranks General list badge for the Second World War that appears on the back cover of Mazeus (red cover, revised edition), doesn't actaully appear anywhere inside the book!? What would it's number be? S.28 is the "officers" general list badge? Does that make the O.R., S.28a??

Is there more than one variety of general list OR badge for WW2? Was it issued previous to the start of the war. Were any surplus WW1 badges issued post 1918?

I have many different varieties of General List badges (maple leaf type) from QVC era through WW2. Has anyone compilied a list of known varieties?

"the maple leaf forever..."

Bill A · #2 19-03-09, 11:43 PM

Bill, What do you classify as a WW2 General List badge?

LLWill · #3 21-03-09, 12:47 PM

How about the list in "J.H.Harper's" book, A SOURCE OF PRIDE. Page 03. It is at least a start on a list of varieties.

Bill A · #4 21-03-09, 01:23 PM

Hello Bill, Further to your question, the general list WW1 badges were issued, and in large numbers during WW2. In particular they were issued early in the war when shortages of everything was a problem. Various patterns of the badges were issued.

WJ Miller · #5 23-03-09, 08:27 PM

Hi Bill,

In regard to my original post. Mazeas did not include the following badge in his listing (only pictured on the back cover). Photo attached.

Furthermore, over the weekend, I went through a box of General List badges I have and recalled this other pattern by Scully which I often see listed as WW2 pattern. (Also not in Mazeas?)

WJ Miller · #6 23-03-09, 08:58 PM

Okay, so now I am going to open a can of worms....

Last year, I wanted to frame a small collection of Canadian. maple leaf design, General List badges. I just like maple leaves

... at that time I thought there was only a couple type/designs and thought it would be a quick, interesting and inexpensive display. However, as I gathered up examples I soon began to notice that there were what seemed an endless variety of a very common badge. (and I am not even talking about finishes!) No, there is just a lot of distinct die varieties, most non-maker marked. This raised a lot of questions for me. First, was there a reference to all the varieties (sorry, Will, I don't have Harper's book, so I am not familiar with his list). Secondly, why so many types?

It is my understanding that the GL badge was an interim badge for the general duty soldier, not attached to a regiment. So in my mind that would mean, less demand that regimental badges?? Even if it was a high demand badge, why so many makers and die varieties? Surely, one or two makers could have made the supply?

(For example, of the common WW1 variety, the stout copper leaf with large crown and large lettered banner, I have at least 10 distinct die designs, most of them not maker marked.)

I gathered, about 70 GL badges (including collars) from 1900 thru WW2 and can break them into 7 distinct shapes/primary maple leaf design. Description attached, the timeline is my best guess... ) Then, within each shape type, there is a myriad of different maker dies!?

So... anyone have a comprehensive list of all these types!?

WJ Miller · #7 23-03-09, 09:01 PM

final examples

LLWill · #8 23-03-09, 11:50 PM

Well I wasn't to sure just what I was going to do with myself this evening - now I know!! Start "digging" out the GL badges !!!

Larry

jim a · #9 24-03-09, 01:56 PM

Nice topic Bill and a great set of references. I've got quite a few GL badges but never really looked at them in this light. I'll have to see how many of the variations I have and what to look for on the ones I'm missing. This is one thing I enjoy about this hobby, how you can change focus and get going in another direction.... explore a new area... thanks Jim

WJ Miller · #10 24-03-09, 09:03 PM

Jim and Will, I'll be interested to know how many varieties you find, particularly "maker marked" examples. In the next week or so, i will post an album with all the varieties I have.

At first blush, they really do all look the same. Of the common maker marked types: Roden, Ellis and Lees, they look very similar, but do exhibit distinct leaf shapes, crowns and banner size/lettering. These makers did not share dies, but did manage to maintain a remarkable uniformity. Among the unmarked types I have the design/quality varies widely.

Bill A · #11 24-03-09, 11:54 PM

Bill et al, Are you going to include the later general list badges? Or, just the "maple leaf" varieties? (Later issue meaning the queen's crown issue, and the CF pineapple. There are many many varieties of the pineapple as well.)
Mazeas appears to have made some errors / omissions as far as the general list badges are concerned. Other than the officer's issue coat of arms general list badges, I would not be prepared to conclusively say that the general list or's badges were WW1, inter war or WW2. The dies could be pulled out of the cupboard and used again at any time. The various patterns seem to have more to do with different makers than with different time periods. Documentary evidence would certainly be useful, and sealed patterns would explain a lot, if they were available.

LLWill · #12 25-03-09, 12:22 AM

so far I have found four (4) Hat Badges and one (10 collar. The Hat Badge with the slider is marker "England", the rest do not have makers marks

Larry

LLWill · #13 25-03-09, 12:41 AM

A few more to look at

Larry

WJ Miller · #14 25-03-09, 02:52 AM

Larry,

Thanks for posting the pics. Nice to see the matching collar to the "type 6". I think previously you had mentioned reference to GL badges in "Harper". How detailed/long is that list?

Bill, I was only intending to gather info on the common "maple leaf" type, beyond that, QC/CF badges... well I am already in WAY over my head. I am starting to think that Mazeas left out the OR general list badges on purpose... these could have been a whole reference book on their own!? I am surprised that there is no existing reference listing on these very common badges? I can't possibly be the first person in a 100 years to want to put together a comprehensive collection of these? Though I can now see how someone may be hesitant to attempt it because of the plethora of varieties vs. lack of reference!

The "types" and "timelines" I put together are only my best guess based solely on the few references I have read and the observation of how various badges have been listed for sale in auctions and eBay. It is in no way meant to be comprehensive or accurate just my own starting point. I think the only badges of accurate "origin" (but not continuing issue, or not) are those that are dated by the makers.

servicepub · #15 25-03-09, 09:16 PM

I wonder if, for the WWII issues which are very similar - differing only in minor details between manufacturers - DND didn't supply a master drawing and then left it to the individuals manufacturers to make the dies? This would be in keeping with their standard practice with other badges, with the dies reverting to DND once the run was completed.