British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Books by Forum Members


Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Canadian Military Insignia > Corps, Branches and the Royal Canadian Artillery

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-05-15, 06:08 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,208
Default Canadian Military Engineers

Not much info on this badge, Except that it is rare http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...tary+engineers
But what is this exactly, short lived version? Makers fluke? Were they ever worn?

Is there any documentation on Canadian Engineers cap badges available? I would like to compile a complete collection of cap badges but am clueless what is out there. All I managed to find on the web is this http://www.cmemuseum.ca/index_e/visit_e/faq1_e.htm which for starters doesn't list different versions e.g. OR's, OSD, embroidered, collars worn on caps etc..
Where to start?

Rgds, Thomas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Canadian Military Engineers.jpg (102.6 KB, 41 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-05-15, 06:10 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,208
Default

This badge is no longer worn? What is worn today?

Rgds, Thomas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Engineers Genie Canada.jpg (98.7 KB, 17 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-05-15, 06:25 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

The badge was unilingual. It did not include the French designation and was not acceptable. These badges were privately made and replaced by the authorized issue which is still in wear. Here is a link to the current badge. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-...rs-reg-eng.asp
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-05-15, 06:30 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

Thomas, The Canadian Engineers were formed in 1903, had a permanent force component named the Royal Canadian Engineers. The militia component was granted the "Royal" honour in 1936, and both the permanent force and reserves were the Royal Canadian Engineers until 1968 when the corps became the Canadian Military Engineers and re-designated the Corps of Royal Canadian Military Engineers in 2013. Try the badge galleries at the top right of each of these pages for the appropriate examples of badges.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-05-15, 09:37 PM
Michael Dorosh Michael Dorosh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 223
Default

Worth noting that the Canadian Military Engineers refers to just that - military engineers for the entire Canadian Forces. The Army component of the branch is known as the Corps of Royal Canadian Engineers, the historical designation used before unification. The CME branch, when created at unification, included the former engineering services of the RCN and RCAF and apparently still do. So the RCE have the designation but apparently still wear the cap badge of the combined branch along with naval and air force engineers.
__________________
canadiansoldiers.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21-05-15, 09:49 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

Thanks Mike. I was wondering about that. With the re-designation of many of the Branches as "Royal" corps again there is some movement towards new badges. This may develop for the CME.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-05-15, 10:02 PM
Michael Dorosh Michael Dorosh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
Thanks Mike. I was wondering about that. With the re-designation of many of the Branches as "Royal" corps again there is some movement towards new badges. This may develop for the CME.
The CF webpage wasn't very clear on this, but it does seem to be a unique situation where a tri-service branch has renamed one of its elements to conform to historical precedent.
__________________
canadiansoldiers.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-05-15, 02:56 PM
ddaydodger ddaydodger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Calgary Alberta
Posts: 436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
The badge was unilingual. It did not include the French designation and was not acceptable. These badges were privately made and replaced by the authorized issue which is still in wear. Here is a link to the current badge. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-...rs-reg-eng.asp
The badge was made by the Engineer Branch Kit Shop in Chilliwack, and sold to the members of the branch. The members were ordered to purchase the badge. When Ottawa found out they were, to put it mildly, upset. The Engineers were ordered to recall all the badges, refund all the money, and to stop commenting on the quality of DND procured badges vs privately made badges.
This was common in the early unification days. It took years for units and branches to get approved badges.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-05-15, 04:57 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

Thanks for the details Bruce.
The early era of CF was horrible for badge acquisition. CFHQ didn't know what they were doing, the Branches didn't know the policies because CFHQ didn't clarify for months and sometimes years and what was permissable or verbotten was not clear. Regiments and units lost some sense of identity and felt like they were lost in a sea of dark green.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22-05-15, 05:12 PM
edstorey edstorey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 769
Default CME Unilingual Badge

I am not sure the story of the unilingual CME cap badge is correct. My belief is that the badge and collars was initially produced in a unilingual format and then withdrawn from service. A redesigned bilingual format badge was the replacement; although not before a number of unilingual badges had been issued for wear.

The CME Kit Shop may well have been selling left-over stock from this initial run, but I do not think that the kit shop actually had the unilingual badges made.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-05-15, 05:31 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

One of the interesting facets of this hobby is tracking down the truth. I guess that is only for the anal collectors among us, but the stories and embellishments about this or that badge are inventive and incredible. In some cases there is a document trail, but in others no records exist and we are left at the mercy of memory, if someone is around who was actually involved.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22-05-15, 07:06 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
Thomas, The Canadian Engineers were formed in 1903, had a permanent force component named the Royal Canadian Engineers. The militia component was granted the "Royal" honour in 1936, and both the permanent force and reserves were the Royal Canadian Engineers until 1968 when the corps became the Canadian Military Engineers and re-designated the Corps of Royal Canadian Military Engineers in 2013. Try the badge galleries at the top right of each of these pages for the appropriate examples of badges.
The PRE 1914 is not yet complete and doesn't show any Engineers badges, the CEF engineers badge was also worn before and after the first world war? Canadian 1920 - 1950 only shows the Royal Canadian Engineers, not the militia badges? Was there an EviiR badge? Did Canadian Engineers also wear the grenade collar badge as headdress badge?

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22-05-15, 10:58 PM
QSAMIKE's Avatar
QSAMIKE QSAMIKE is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Home of the New West, Canada
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
The PRE 1914 is not yet complete and doesn't show any Engineers badges, the CEF engineers badge was also worn before and after the first world war? Canadian 1920 - 1950 only shows the Royal Canadian Engineers, not the militia badges? Was there an EviiR badge? Did Canadian Engineers also wear the grenade collar badge as headdress badge?

Rgds, Thomas.

Here you go Thomas....... Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg R.C.E..jpg (72.7 KB, 36 views)
__________________
Calgary Military Historical Society
OMRS 1591
Boer War Badges
Want's anything named Clare or Cherer
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 23-05-15, 12:00 AM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,208
Default

Thanks Mike, thanks to all other contributors as well! All your help is much appreciated.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 23-05-15, 12:24 AM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,523
Default

Hi Thomas, The Canadian Engineers badge is found in numerous variations. Probably over 30 different ones, but they all are similar in design. It was worn before during and after the First WW. The post 1920 militia badge was the Canadian Engineers design as per the pre and First WW type. The GVR and GVRI pattern badges were worn by the permanent force until 1936, when all components of the engineers (the permanent force and militia) wore the GVRI badge. After Elizabeth II's ascension to the throne the ER II pattern was adopted for regular and reserve components.
And, yes RCE officers did wear engineer collars on the CFSC.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.