H.Q. flashes?

[fearnaught]

Hi, Jon Mills in his excellent book " Badges on Battledress" says early in the war some Div. and Bde. H.Q.s had swallow tailed signs but in red and blue. I wonder if this sign could be a detached tank unit attached to an H.Q. of some sort? If not, then what could it be? Open to any suggestions, thanks in advance Mike

[fairlie63]

Mike, it may be that this patch is related to 1st New Zealand Army Tank Brigade, possibly NZ Army Service Corps.

Cliff Lord (Quicksilver on this forum) and Malcolm Thomas show similar patches in their New Zealand Army Distinguishing Patches 1911-1991, Part One, pp. 65-66.

The system of patches for this brigade was 1 inch square. They do not show this one but style of material and size seem a match for the examples they do show.

Cheers, Keith

[fearnaught]

Hi Keith, thank you for that information, sounds interesting, best wishes Mike

[Quicksilver]

I do not know the answer to this question, but have asked my co-author on the New Zealand Army Distinguishing Patches part one book, Malcolm Thomas, what he thinks about it. His reply follows:
Although very very similar to the WWII 1 NZ Army Tank Brigades ASC Company, I can find no reason why it should have a pennant shaped background. The Tank brigade did not evolve from any of the NZ Mounted Rifles units which (when horsed) did use lances with pennants. Nor have I seen any other New Zealand Army patches sewn on to a wooden background like this. Otherwise it could be a sweetheart badge doctored to look fancy?
Unless other info comes to light then I would say it is not a New Zealand Army insignia.
(My gut feeling is that it is genuine but a sweetheart patch)
Malcolm collects NZ patches and badges and has a superb collection. I do not collect them, but I did manage to pick up one of these tank patches for the 1st New Zealand Army Tank Brigade Signal Squadron with a tank superimposed about four years ago. It was genuine. I mention this because on page 65 of part 1 I state that the Signal Squadron only had a white over blue 1 inch patch. That was true at first, but later the tank was sew on. All my photos were without tank and taken in NZ before moving to the Islands in the Pacific.
Quicksilver (Cliff Lord)

Originally Posted by fairlie63

Mike, it may be that this patch is related to 1st New Zealand Army Tank Brigade, possibly NZ Army Service Corps.

Cliff Lord (Quicksilver on this forum) and Malcolm Thomas show similar patches in their New Zealand Army Distinguishing Patches 1911-1991, Part One, pp. 65-66.

The system of patches for this brigade was 1 inch square. They do not show this one but style of material and size seem a match for the examples they do show.

Cheers, Keith

[fearnaught]

Hi Cliff, I read your article on 1st N.Z. Tank Bde. and initially thought that was the answer but I also have a very similar small tank on a British WW2 uniform. Not denigrating N.Z. embroidering skills but from the pictures in your article they are not of the greatest quality so perhaps as they only appeared after they left New Zealand they were made by the soldiers themselves. This, for me, is unfortunate as it would be good to have an answer as to what the sign is.
A long time ago I was told these small tanks were for detached units of the R.T.R. and I hope that is what this sign is. Alas, hope is one thing and proof is something else, so thank you for your response and if you can identify it as being N.Z. I would be more than happy, but at the moment I'm still in favour of it being British, best wishes Mike

[Quicksilver]

Hi Mike,
There is one last thing I can tell you about the Tank Bde patches and that is I was told by the man who gave me the signals tank patch was that his father told him that they had a sewing machine in one of the Brigade tents in New Zealand and sewed on the tank. I look forward to hearing back from you when you have a positive ID.
BRgds
Cliff

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi Cliff, I read your article on 1st N.Z. Tank Bde. and initially thought that was the answer but I also have a very similar small tank on a British WW2 uniform. Not denigrating N.Z. embroidering skills but from the pictures in your article they are not of the greatest quality so perhaps as they only appeared after they left New Zealand they were made by the soldiers themselves. This, for me, is unfortunate as it would be good to have an answer as to what the sign is.
A long time ago I was told these small tanks were for detached units of the R.T.R. and I hope that is what this sign is. Alas, hope is one thing and proof is something else, so thank you for your response and if you can identify it as being N.Z. I would be more than happy, but at the moment I still in favour of it being British, best wishes Mike