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  #31  
Old 23-02-20, 09:07 PM
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Thanks for all the interesting an informative information behind this photograph. As for the unit, it is the King's County Rifles.

Thanks,

Stephen

So an Irish Militia Bn. Interesting.

regards
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  #32  
Old 23-02-20, 10:34 PM
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Greetings.

Endorsing previous comments....................a fascinating and extremely educational thread.

Regards.

Brian
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  #33  
Old 10-03-20, 01:34 PM
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Rather than start a new thread I thought the information contained in this excellent thread would be a great place to show and discuss the following items that follow on from recent discussions particularly by Toby.

Just acquired are these wonderful condition badges of a Sergeant Major of the 46th (South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot, consisting of his rank badge of a QVC over a set of double gold lace, 4-bar chevrons, his red backed gold lace embellished epaulettes and half a cap number.

Here is what I think, and would love to hear others who can back this up or correct it.

Double Lace Chevrons for Infantry stopped in 1868.

Shoulder Straps of Crimean War period.

Whole lot possibly dates from early 1850's to Late 1860's.

regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 46thBadges1.jpg (71.5 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 46thBadges2.jpg (36.6 KB, 11 views)
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  #34  
Old 10-03-20, 06:36 PM
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Very nice Simon. Good to see how they were constructed too.

Regards,
Keith
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  #35  
Old 10-03-20, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Rather than start a new thread I thought the information contained in this excellent thread would be a great place to show and discuss the following items that follow on from recent discussions particularly by Toby.

Just acquired are these wonderful condition badges of a Sergeant Major of the 46th (South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot, consisting of his rank badge of a QVC over a set of double gold lace, 4-bar chevrons, his red backed gold lace embellished epaulettes and half a cap number.

Here is what I think, and would love to hear others who can back this up or correct it.

Double Lace Chevrons for Infantry stopped in 1868.

Shoulder Straps of Crimean War period.

Whole lot possibly dates from early 1850's to Late 1860's.

regards
Simon, they are very nice items. Quality back in the day. It would be nice to see an Album with your badges ( cloth ) in.
Andy
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  #36  
Old 10-03-20, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
Simon, they are very nice items. Quality back in the day. It would be nice to see an Album with your badges ( cloth ) in.
Andy
Thanks Andy. It would be nice to have the time to do it.

I will, eventually.

regards
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  #37  
Old 12-03-20, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Rather than start a new thread I thought the information contained in this excellent thread would be a great place to show and discuss the following items that follow on from recent discussions particularly by Toby.

Just acquired are these wonderful condition badges of a Sergeant Major of the 46th (South Devonshire) Regiment of Foot, consisting of his rank badge of a QVC over a set of double gold lace, 4-bar chevrons, his red backed gold lace embellished epaulettes and half a cap number.

Here is what I think, and would love to hear others who can back this up or correct it.

Double Lace Chevrons for Infantry stopped in 1868.

Shoulder Straps of Crimean War period.

Whole lot possibly dates from early 1850's to Late 1860's.

regards
Superb images Simon, thank you for posting them. I agree with your analysis entirely. I particularly like the shoulder straps, a shape known to uniform historians as ‘shuttlecock’ style. They were not always universal and there were periods when some units preferred them while another unit chose a different shape.
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  #38  
Old 12-03-20, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Thanks for all the interesting an informative information behind this photograph. As for the unit, it is the King's County Rifles.

Thanks,

Stephen
Thank you Stephen, it’s interesting to see that they appear well found and equipped with a more professional appearance (to my eyes) than some English Militia regiments of the same period. I think this is probably because of their regularly utilised policing role and the widespread embodiment of the militia as a whole during that time. I was intererested to learn that ultimately they lost their rifles status when made the 3rd Militia Battalion of the Leinster Regiment in July 1881.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 14-03-20 at 10:12 AM.
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  #39  
Old 12-03-20, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
Superb images Simon, thank you for posting them. I agree with your analysis entirely. I particularly like the shoulder straps, a shape known to uniform historians as ‘shuttlecock’ style. They were not always universal and there were periods when some units preferred them while another unit chose a different shape.
Thanks Toby, thats reassuring and interesting to know.

regards
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  #40  
Old 13-03-20, 01:31 PM
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Another vote of thanks for your commentaries gents! Regards Mark
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  #41  
Old 13-03-20, 06:45 PM
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Fabulous purchase.

Not only did double lace cease to be issued, but also lace on facing colour. Naturally the hard date represents a range of dates until existing badges on uniforms and existing (expensive) stocks ran out ........ difficult to envisage a sergeant major giving up such a splendid and immaculate badge without a fuss.

In my opinion a few of these badges could still be on uniforms in 1875.
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  #42  
Old 13-03-20, 08:40 PM
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Thanks Grumpy, excellent further information.

regards
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  #43  
Old 14-03-20, 10:17 AM
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The crown badges were supplied from the RACD, but I do wonder if the stripes were supplied as lace on rolls and then made up by the Sergeant Master Tailor. Looking at them I suspect that was the case because each had to be sewn on to the regiments own facing colour cloth, including the bullion and coloured silks crown.
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  #44  
Old 14-03-20, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
The crown badges were supplied from the RACD, but I do wonder if the stripes were supplied as lace on rolls and then made up by the Sergeant Master Tailor. Looking at them I suspect that was the case because each had to be sewn on to the regiments own facing colour cloth, including the bullion and coloured silks crown.
Apparently [and surprisingly] not.
This from the ledger:


1869
Chevrons
old pattern double ˝” lace [on facing color]
Use up for Militia except red/purple faced, these to be converted for Line.
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  #45  
Old 14-03-20, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
Apparently [and surprisingly] not.
This from the ledger:


1869
Chevrons
old pattern double ˝” lace [on facing color]
Use up for Militia except red/purple faced, these to be converted for Line.
Thank you Grumpy, I did realise that it could go either way, but thought that the facing cloth backing was critical. However, it makes sense now, although I am surprised that the devices were not added to facing colour cloth in regimental tailor's workshops. Presumably that was because it was perceived by Horse Guards that only central provision would guarantee a uniform consistency, which is probably true.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 14-03-20 at 02:52 PM.
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