Commando badge

[Frank Kelley]

Does anyone know if the red knife on blue triangular shaped Commando Brigade/Group badge was issued in printed form before the more familiar embroidered was produced and worn during the war?

[HamandJam]

Hi Frank

I don’t know when it was issued-presume printed were government issue -but a printed ww2 one red backed also exists and are very hard to find. There is also the painted version blue backed which is more common a couple of sheets with uncut painted badges did turn up that have flooded the market.

Cheers
JB

[grey_green_acorn]

Previous thread here https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ghlight=Dagger

Tim

[Frank Kelley]

Hello,
Many thanks, yes, the printed red backed examples appear to be made using the same material and manufacturing as the combined operations badges and I just wondered if they were the first to be issued.
They do seem to be very thin on the ground.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by HamandJam

Hi Frank

I don’t know when it was issued-presume printed were government issue -but a printed ww2 one red backed also exists and are very hard to find. There is also the painted version blue backed which is more common a couple of sheets with uncut painted badges did turn up that have flooded the market.

Cheers
JB

[Frank Kelley]

The one that interests me is the printed example in the opening post in that thread, but, sadly, it does not answer my question.

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Previous thread here https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ghlight=Dagger

Tim

[Mike B]

Printed issue was the official ordnance issue for SS Service / Cdo Group titles etc - much confusion exists as to which came first out of 'embroidered' or 'printed' red on black insignia. Cdo Group sign was quite late from memory - my guess is printed 'official' issue would be the first issue. The embroidered Group sign, like embroidered red on black titles etc, may be regarded as 'unofficial' - more research required to confirm this hunch.
Mike

[Frank Kelley]

That is certainly my way of thinking too, I assume the Calico Printers Association had a contract for these badges by the end of 1944?

Originally Posted by Mike B

Printed issue was the official ordnance issue for SS Service / Cdo Group titles etc - much confusion exists as to which came first out of 'embroidered' or 'printed' red on black insignia. Cdo Group sign was quite late from memory - my guess is printed 'official' issue would be the first issue. The embroidered Group sign, like embroidered red on black titles etc, may be regarded as 'unofficial' - more research required to confirm this hunch.
Mike

[Mike B]

From the (incomplete) information I have: Records suggest the Cdo Gp badge did not gain official approval until Jan 1945 - Cdo Gp Routine Order 183 of 2/10/45 states 'Fast Dyed' examples available. Quite a gap - had they been out of stock for a time? - more information required.
Mike

[HamandJam]

I recall that records of 2 Dutch troop say that on March 24, 1945 the 4th commando brigade badge was introduced a red commando dagger on black background and printed ones were issued but an embroidered one could be purchased for 35 pence.

Cheers

JB

[Mike B]

JB
Many thanks for clarification, it looks like there was a gap in supply of printed - with late introduction it is no wonder the red backed printed are so tricky to find.
Season's Greetings
Mike

[Postwarden]

This extract from the Royal Marine chapter of Badges on Battle Dress may shed some light on the subject

The new Commando Group dagger which it was agreed in January 1945 would replace the Combined Operations badge (War Office authority was given in WO Letter 54/Misc/4745 (SD1) of 10th January 1945, RM authority in letter RM882/8/44.A3; NA DEFE2/960), was not worn by Royal Marines until after hostilities ceased. Whilst Army Commandos wore a printed version (Commando Group Routine Order No 183, 2nd October 1945 stated that ‘Printed Commando Group formation signs with a fast dye are now available and should be demanded from ADOS, Commando Group’; NA DEFE2/57) and the badge is described in the November 1945 RM Dress Regulations as ‘Badges, Arm, Embroidered, Red Dagger’ by the end of that month they were officially printed (RMRO 2005, 26th November 1945 amends embroidered to printed).

The references are to National Archives (NA) files.

Jon

[Mike B]

Hi Jon
The Cdo Group Routine Order No.183 of 2/10/1945 was my source too.
Hence my question about a gap in issue from authorisation.
Useful reference to RM Dress Regulations
Mike

[Frank Kelley]

That sounds like a considerable amount of money in 1945.

Originally Posted by HamandJam

I recall that records of 2 Dutch troop say that on March 24, 1945 the 4th commando brigade badge was introduced a red commando dagger on black background and printed ones were issued but an embroidered one could be purchased for 35 pence.

Cheers

JB

[grey_green_acorn]

Probably should read three pence halfpenny (three and a half pennies).

35 pennies was two shillings and eleven pence in 1945 when a pint of beer was about one shilling and two pence. There were 12 pennies in a shilling, 240 pennies in a pound.

Tim

[Frank Kelley]

Indeed, that would certainly have been a rather expensive little badge to buy.

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Probably should read three pence halfpenny (three and a half pennies).

35 pennies was two shillings and eleven pence in 1945 when a pint of beer was about one shilling and two pence. There were 12 pennies in a shilling, 240 pennies in a pound.

Tim