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  #46  
Old 09-03-14, 08:42 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Having been shunned by Wayne Ihaka today at the Wellington Militaria club meeting was a bit of surprise, and according to Wayne’s jungle drums it seems he is not alone in thinking that I have overstepped the line and should make good on some apologies.
So I have taken the time, reread my comments especially regarding what I said in post #27, and I agree I do owe Wayne an apology for including some details that I should have treated as personal.
So sorry for that Wayne, my original intention was only to draw attention to the flood of Numerals being sold by Bigmamanz that was ending up in some well know collections. Regardless I have edited that post.

Wayne also mentioned I should admit that the Stokes made numerals were indeed worn by New Zealand Reinforcements, well that’s a no brainer considering Puk has trumped me with an actual picture of one being worn, and yes I do humbly bow down to Puks access of a far superior photographic database that is always one step in front of my own.

So Atilla is proven to have backed the wrong side on this one, but that is what playing ‘devil’s advocate’ is all about, if nothing I can at least say I supplied a constructive balanced view which I believe has helped in a definitive conclusion being achieved.
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  #47  
Old 09-03-14, 08:47 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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[QUOTE=vigilans;252534]quote [Atillathenunns] "What we both can agree on is that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz are most unlikely to have ever been worn at all by NZ Reinforcements.....wrong!!!QUOTE]

That's debatable.
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  #48  
Old 09-03-14, 11:24 PM
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Brent...So I see you are trying to regain some dignity after clearly acting like a know it all schoolboy, however the damage has been done and I think the loss of face is a just reward for someone who believes so strongly in their own superiority.

Last edited by vigilans; 10-03-14 at 05:48 AM.
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  #49  
Old 10-03-14, 12:02 AM
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Guys,

I have been a member of the forum for sometime now and have over the years reduced my activity for the very reason that is clearly displayed here. You all need to grow up. This is not life - it time to get one and move on. The NZ section of this forum has been overtaken by rude opinionated fools. Perhaps its time for me to move on.

Shaun

Last edited by saumua; 10-03-14 at 05:43 AM.
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  #50  
Old 10-03-14, 12:12 AM
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The End

Last edited by vigilans; 10-03-14 at 05:46 AM.
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  #51  
Old 10-03-14, 05:47 AM
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[QUOTE=atillathenunns;253510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by vigilans View Post
quote [Atillathenunns] "What we both can agree on is that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz are most unlikely to have ever been worn at all by NZ Reinforcements.....wrong!!!QUOTE]

That's debatable.
Yawn....yep....night Brent!
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  #52  
Old 10-03-14, 08:38 PM
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I see someone has rated this thread ''terrible''.I totally agree ,but it was never my intention to have others hijack this discussion for their own personal agendas .

What we originally had was a worthy discussion based around weather the Stokes made numerals were worn by the NZEF ,which has been proved so .I'm happy to include them in my badge collection ,and have just bought 2 ,along with another 6 NZ made reinforcement numerals.

Last edited by pukman; 11-03-14 at 03:53 AM.
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  #53  
Old 11-03-14, 07:55 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigilans View Post
Brent...So I see you are trying to regain some dignity after clearly acting like a know it all schoolboy, however the damage has been done and I think the loss of face is a just reward for someone who believes so strongly in their own superiority.
Vigilans my apology to Wayne was indeed deserved and I am only too happy to fully admit that, it is a simple courtesy that a person offers when they have made a mistake, your attempts to blow it out of proportion by saying I have lost face over it is just farcical.

If you had taken the time to actually understand what I have posted so far you will see in my first three posts I was simply asking for proof, my fourth post was simply acknowledging that I was finally understanding the information that you had provided up until that point, and my fifth post which although was directed at Wayne, I actually admitted I believed you were “on the right track.”
So in reality I have always kept an open mind and can at least say I made a genuine effort to get to the bottom of the Stokes numeral confusion regardless of the outcome.

[QUOTE=atillathenunns;253510] Quote: Originally Posted by vigilans View Post
quote [Atillathenunns] "What we both can agree on is that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz are most unlikely to have ever been worn at all by NZ Reinforcements.....wrong!!!QUOTE]
That's debatable.
Yawn....yep....night Brent![ QUOTE]


Again if you had taken the time to actually understand what I had wrote in post #37, you would see I was simply agreeing with Pukman that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz “were a bulk lot of unissued badges.”
So how does that make me wrong?
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  #54  
Old 11-03-14, 07:47 PM
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[QUOTE=atillathenunns;253821]Vigilans my apology to Wayne was indeed deserved and I am only too happy to fully admit that, it is a simple courtesy that a person offers when they have made a mistake, your attempts to blow it out of proportion by saying I have lost face over it is just farcical.

If you had taken the time to actually understand what I have posted so far you will see in my first three posts I was simply asking for proof, my fourth post was simply acknowledging that I was finally understanding the information that you had provided up until that point, and my fifth post which although was directed at Wayne, I actually admitted I believed you were “on the right track.”
So in reality I have always kept an open mind and can at least say I made a genuine effort to get to the bottom of the Stokes numeral confusion regardless of the outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by vigilans View Post
quote [Atillathenunns] "What we both can agree on is that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz are most unlikely to have ever been worn at all by NZ Reinforcements.....wrong!!!QUOTE]
That's debatable.
Yawn....yep....night Brent![ QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post

Again if you had taken the time to actually understand what I had wrote in post #37, you would see I was simply agreeing with Pukman that the Stokes made Numerals being sold by Bigg-mama-nz “were a bulk lot of unissued badges.”
So how does that make me wrong?
Yes you were right all the time.....!
Time now to put it to rest
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  #55  
Old 16-03-14, 07:00 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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In post #27 I mentioned a noticeable flood of badges coming out of Palmerston North from Trade-me sellers Bigmamanz and Kamasu.

So far no connection has been made between the two sellers and even I myself have invested in a pair of NZMC (NZ Medical Corps) collar badges for $10 each (2011 Oldham 8/223 book value $25 each) from Kamasu which is a bargain, and I am sure will increase in value as time go by.
I also picked up a set of General Pattern Bugle Horn cap and 2 x collar badges for a total of $20 (2011 Oldham 2/106, 2/108, 2/109 book value $85) which I suspect are more modern than the Volunteer period Bugle Horns that I already had in my collection, but at $20 I’m not complaining.

The Trade-me sellers may not be connected, but the Stokes made numerals, the Stokes made NZMGS shoulder titles and the Stokes made NZMC badges are definitely connected.
IMO it is unlikely that the Camp jewellers sold the Stokes made badges and instead they are more likely to have been sold by one of the three ‘Military outfitters’ operating within the Trentham, Featherston and Tauherenikau training camps, or one of the many ‘Military outfitters’ operating independently from the camps.

As the Stokes made numerals and NZMC collar badges are coming from the Palmerston North area it could be considered that they may have been surplus from a local Military outfitter. However the main supplier of badges in Palmerston North during WW1 was P. Robert & Co, and as they manufactured their own brass buttons and brass badges, IMO, I doubt they purchased badges from Australia.

I have however found an Auckland Military outfitter which does appear to have sold NZMGS shoulder titles and NZMC collar badges (available in gilt and oxidised) which match the NZMC collar badges being sold by Kamasu.
It is a possibility the Stokes numerals were surplus to this Auckland Military outfitter. (Adverts dated 7th January 1916 & 7th November1918)





Advert 7th November1918

Last edited by atillathenunns; 16-03-14 at 07:08 AM.
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  #56  
Old 16-03-14, 05:23 PM
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Good detective work, Brent! Thanks for the adverts.
Cheers, Tinto
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  #57  
Old 01-04-14, 08:42 PM
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Default 34 Stokes numeral

Just thought to add this to the debate.
I think the picture clearly shows a Stokes bar shoulder numeral, 34.
Interesting debate an research to get to the truth of these shoulder numbers.
Kind regards
Dan
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  #58  
Old 01-04-14, 11:10 PM
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Hi Dan,
I agree, looks like a "bar" type numeral.
Cheers, Tinto
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  #59  
Old 25-12-19, 10:52 PM
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Updated NZ reinforcement numeral collection. The question is what is the oddball large 27. approx. 27mm high


If anyone is looking for a spare small 2 (I have two available) Free to a good home .


Iain
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File Type: jpg big 27.jpg (22.7 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by pukman; 27-12-19 at 04:43 AM.
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  #60  
Old 26-12-19, 05:55 PM
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I have been advised by an advanced badge collector, that the larger numerals are New Zealand made, but are harder to find, than the usual size, especially in pairs.


There must have been different manufacturers making different styles and sizes .


A underestimated and unrecorded section of NZ badge collecting , seeing that most reinforcements wore them !!

Last edited by pukman; 26-12-19 at 06:00 PM.
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