Any details about photo?

[Stephen]

Hi all,

I've had this in my collection for a while. I bought it as the photographer was of interest, but I've no clue about the person in the photo.

Any assistance would be great. I've zoomed in on one of the buttons but not sure which regiment it might be?

Thanks,

Stephen

[cbuehler]

Unfortunately the button is not legible enough; that and the unusual tunic make this a mystery. No cap badge appears to be worn either.

CB

[gb64]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Hi all,

I've had this in my collection for a while. I bought it as the photographer was of interest, but I've no clue about the person in the photo.

Any assistance would be great. I've zoomed in on one of the buttons but not sure which regiment it might be?

Thanks,

Stephen

Hello Stephen, not a British uniform as far as I’m aware.

Gerard

[manchesters]

I think its very typically British KD for the Boer War.

An officer although no badges.

regards

[leigh kitchen]

The second image - definitely a blemish on the photo rather than a collar insignia of some kind?

[Milmed]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

The second image - definitely a blemish on the photo rather than a collar insignia of some kind?

Leigh, Second picture is a close up of a uniform button....

[leigh kitchen]

Yes - to the right of and slightly above the button?

[gb64]

Originally Posted by manchesters

I think its very typically British KD for the Boer War.

An officer although no badges.

regards

Thanks Simon, not a uniform I’ve seen before but then that era isn’t my collecting field so always learning thanks to the forum.

Gerard

[Stephen]

Thanks for the replies all. After some more research, it appears the chap is wearing a serge jacket, which seems to be what other ranks worn, and if so, then it would have general service buttons.

I think there is a blemish in the photo, than rather there being collar badges.

Many thanks,

Stephen

[Luke H]

Seeing the picture I was struck with the resemblance to this officer of the Paddington Rifles posted by postwarden https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ney+Paddington

Initially I thought it was probably just the moustache I wasn’t seeing past.

Another member James (Tenth London) contributed to the thread adding that he believed the officer was named Stewart. He also added the below picture, which I hope he doesn’t mind me posting again. His post sadly disappeared as it coincided with the forum being upgraded a few years back to the new look format and when Mike reverted back it wiped about 24hrs of posts which included this picture.

Any way, it struck me the man’s lower lip (mentolabial lobe), ear shape and position also look about right, as does his overall face shape.

Obviously people will know the Paddington Rifles did serve in the Boer War as the battle honour is on their post 1908 cap badge.

Keith Hook very kindly gave me a booklet by J.P. Kelleher on the Paddington Rifles which lists amongst other things their members who served in the Boer War 1899-1902.

Sure enough one Sergeant Stewart is on that list. The list is not clear as to dates of ranks.

Do members see this similarity or like Lance Corporal Jones have I just entered the realms of fantasy Mr Mainwaring?

[cbuehler]

Not the same chap. The eyebrows are different. There were quite a few non regulation private purchase tunics worn during the Boer War, so this time period may be a possibility.

CB

[grey_green_acorn]

This picture is of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle when serving as a civilian medical officer in the Boer War. Some similarities in the style of ‘uniform’?

Tim

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Seeing the picture I was struck with the resemblance to this officer of the Paddington Rifles posted by postwarden https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ney+Paddington

Initially I thought it was probably just the moustache I wasn’t seeing past.

Another member James (Tenth London) contributed to the thread adding that he believed the officer was named Stewart. He also added the below picture, which I hope he doesn’t mind me posting again. His post sadly disappeared as it coincided with the forum being upgraded a few years back to the new look format and when Mike reverted back it wiped about 24hrs of posts which included this picture.

Any way, it struck me the man’s lower lip (mentolabial lobe), ear shape and position also look about right, as does his overall face shape.

Obviously people will know the Paddington Rifles did serve in the Boer War as the battle honour is on their post 1908 cap badge.

Keith Hook very kindly gave me a booklet by J.P. Kelleher on the Paddington Rifles which lists amongst other things their members who served in the Boer War 1899-1902.

Sure enough one Sergeant Stewart is on that list. The list is not clear as to dates of ranks.

Do members see this similarity or like Lance Corporal Jones have I just entered the realms of fantasy Mr Mainwaring?

Some similarities, but my photo was taken in Birr, Ireland. I suspect it's someone in the local militia so unlikely to be the Paddington Rifles man.

[grumpy]

It is a 5 button frock not a tunic and I can see no reason why it might not be scarlet, or blue, the evidence for officer is pretty thin: the cane and the visible shirt are indicative, not conclusive. Schoolmaster, padre, conductor, war correspondent all struggled without badges around that period, and all had warrant officer or commissioned status. Lack of a badge on cap should ring a bell but not right now.
Variations on the frock c. 1900 are legion, pockets none, pockets one, pockets two ............

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Thanks for the replies all. After some more research, it appears the chap is wearing a serge jacket, which seems to be what other ranks worn, and if so, then it would have general service buttons.

I think there is a blemish in the photo, than rather there being collar badges.

Many thanks,

Stephen

You're quite right Stephen, it's a drab (meaning brownish khaki) undress frock of 1899 pattern that was first issued to the troops in the winter during the 2nd Anglo/Boer War after successful experimentation (trials) on the Home Establishment (Britain and Ireland) from August of that year. It was based upon the existing frock well known in scarlet, rifle green and dark blue. Buttons at that time were not regimental and instead brass general service buttons were worn with a coat of arms embossed upon them.

The headdress he wears is the Austrian pattern of Field Service Cap phased in to replace the glengarry cap as undress headdress for infantry. In 1897 it was often fitted with a collar badge as insignia, but in 1898 a purpose designed badge was introduced for all regiments, and these were common by 1902 when the troops returned from South Africa.

I don't think it's a scarlet frock as they usually had a faced (coloured) collar, usually in white, dark blue or green, and dark blue or rifle green frocks appeared darker when rendered by the orthochromatic film that is seen in your photo (there was even a grey version of the frock worn by some volunteer battalions). It was also less common to wear scarlet frocks with drab riding breeches and puttees shown, although that was sometime seen on mounted infantry (with spurs) or cyclists (initially with spat puttees), so I think you can be confident that it's a drab frock. He does not have any obvious rank insignia, but is clearly an older man. It's possible that he might be from a Militia or Volunteer Battalion. The absence of spurs and the method of fastening his puttees makes Yeomanry unlikely.

The drab frock went through various stages of development and by 1902 had evolved into the now famous uniform that kitted out British and many Commonwealth soldiers throughout WW1. There is a good explanation here: http://parkscanadahistory.com/public...haki-drill.pdf

P.S. If this is Stephen of Birr Barracks fame then we have by coincidence been in recent communication on other matters.