|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
A volunteer unit unconnected to the Grenadier Guards?
The GG Grenade was used in white metal by an (artillery?) Volunteer unit which I can't recall the name of, why not a similar design with the mounted design? That's all I've got, I offer nothing else to support that suggestion. |
#32
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please. |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Minus the crown which is present on the current eBay offering you referred to in post no. 1, flamed grenades, Maltese crosses, presumably all fair game to the Volunteers.
|
#34
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
I thought it is? My eyes?
|
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Now you have said that I am not sure.
Might be my eyes not yours? regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Okay, so were they officers badges in general or were they Grenadier Guards officers badges?
|
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
It seems to me that there is a strong likelihood that the first metal badges used were the standard pattern, flank company brass grenades. These were worn by all right flank companies, Guards and Line. There is no evidence that the Guards wore a different, special pattern. It was after all just one company (of 8) in each battalion. My suggestion is that eventually, around 1838 when the peaked forage cap was issued to the Foot Guards, the Grenadiers simply fitted the flank company grenade badge to the entire battalion’s caps whilst retaining the brass garter strap on their cartridge pouches (cartouches). I’m suggesting that it ‘might’ be that at some point not long after, the First Class Staff (around 5 in most battalions, including the sergeant major, but the Guards probably had more) adopted a more elaborate badge with Queen Victoria’s cypher. I do not know if the badge shown is one of these but I’m suggesting that it might be. The beginning of the reign of a new Queen would be a good time to start. It is of course true that we know such cyphers have been in white metal for some time, but we do not know for sure that they always have been (or do we?). I would love to see proof otherwise, but unless you can show me different, no badges that are unequivocally from 1838-48 seem to have survived. Photographic evidence only extends from the Crimean war, before that we have to rely upon the artwork of primary sources who were direct onlookers at the time. These latter show that brass badges were being worn that early on. I’ve previously asked for someone (anyone) to post photos of early badges in the collection of the Grenadier Guards Museum, but none have been forthcoming. Brass numerals and flank company symbols from line regiment caps do exist in collections, so it would be odd for there to be no surviving insignia for the Grenadiers. I think that there are, but that in most cases they are simply the standard pattern flank company grenade (see attached image). Last edited by Toby Purcell; 31-01-19 at 01:09 PM. |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
Here is what is thought to be a very fine Georgian period Grenadier Guards fused grenade with on the ball a ‘GR’ cypher, the reverse with two pierced broad tang fasteners that suggest a Senior NCOs’ shoulder belt plate mount, c1820-30s, showing that single metal badges with cyphers were not uncommon. Notice that the pattern of the flames is different to today.
Last edited by Toby Purcell; 31-01-19 at 01:08 PM. |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
It is a pure guess, but due to its rarity, is the gilt grenade with gilt crowned cypher mounted on the ball the RSM’s badge?
Kipling and King say that this is an officers’ forage cap badge that has continued through from 1896 (VR, KK889), the cypher specific to each monarch, up to and including Queen Elizabeth II. If this was the case they should be relatively common but the only one I’ve seen was for sale in Bosley’s Postal Auction (43) 25/01/2006, Lot 186 (and it made £330), described as “Grenadier Guards rare GvR Commissioned Quartermaster’s cap badge……”. The silver crowned cypher mounted version (KK1949) is attributed to “Staff” (meaning battalion SNCO’s above Colour Sergeants?) between 1911-1936, then Commissioned Quartermasters only post 1937. Bill |
#41
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks Toby
Here are the original entries from the 2006 catalogue for reference. I've no idea when the VR badge was made, but its small size is interesting. It has now been sold I think. Dis anyone note the number of flames? Bill |
#43
|
||||
|
||||
Yes, I think that the badge was an early version of No 86. It was all gilt but with the cypher in 'fire gilt' which gave the impression that it was bimetal, but I think it's just that the fire gilt has preserved better, which it often does. There are numerous examples of that phenomenon.
|
#44
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please. |
#45
|
||||
|
||||
Its seems the badge in question has been removed from eBay, or the image shaped for a Victorian Royal Irish Rifles badge ?
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|